Imagine how much better our country would be if people had the same passion and fury for ensuring access to doctors and psychologists as they have for ensuring access to weapons.
I agree Stiletto. Healthcare is a human right.
Definitely. And if society as a whole thought of mental illness as an actual illness instead of thinking the person is faking it, weak minded, or any of the other bull they come up with.
I don't belong to the cult of medicine.
It would be lovely!
Funny thing...people are now losing access to doctors they have had for years.
I'm not aware of a movement to restrict access to medical care but there are those who want to restrict access to firearms.
The whole Obamacare effort was to fight de facto restriction to healthcare.
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So good health is a privilege?
Yes. Like anything else that costs money.
Charles Dickens called: he needs you back in Oliver Twist.
Who's at fault if you're sick, suppressed? What gives you the right to tell a doctor that he has to treat you for free even if you make poor health decisions?
I have less access to weapons and good access to doctors.
Dear Stiletto, surely there are folks who DO have "the same passion and fury for ensuring access to doctors and psychologists", if they so desire. We ALL exercise freedom to pick our passions. As a Country, it doesn't get much better than that! :)
Americans have more access to doctors than guns. The psychologists might be less though.
I don't think anyone is trying to prohibit the products and services provided by doctors and psychologists like the government is trying with firearms.
Where does this clown keep showing up from? Jesus Christ. You think if you ignore someone they won't come and verbally vomit all over your polls
He has a serious mental disorder.
Please stop. Please??
I'm just tired of all the contention. It gets old and is ultimately pointless. Nobody changes someone's beliefs or lifestyle by attacking them at every turn. It's a downer for the rest of us who have to wade through it just to have convo.
I admit that I was the biggest offender in the past and so now I'm a hypocrite, but there it is.
I also feel a sort of responsibility to help here because I've been a colossal ass on this app and this is my little way of helping make it a better place. You can always ignore my plea as I can't tell anybody what to do, and I totally respect
Well you should be talking to Stiletto then. He did all of the attacking.
you, but I hope the contention doesn't ultimately wear you and others out too. I guess that's it. :-)
Look at the thread below this one too. He's a very disturbed person.
I've been talking to stiletto, but privately. I'm working both ends. :-)
I haven't read the whole poll yet, but I'm willing I bet that SM is defensive because of the history of which I'm a part. Cornered creatures will bite. I've been at both sides of that. Let's call it a night already for this poll. :-)
Good luck dealing with his mental disorder.
Stiletto, I know you disagree with Nenacyst's opinion, but he was calm and polite. Why the attack on him?
Because of his mental disorder. Jesus. How hard is that to understand? Why is this so shocking?
I have always liked you and gotten along with you. I have seen you be kind and caring. Some people have really hurt you on this app, but it seems to me, Nema was trying to honestly debate. I was hoping you would debate back, in that spirit.
Look at the thread below this one... I tried. All he did was attack.
To be clear ... That reply was to Stiletto, not cowboy. :)
Cowboy, if you mean her PTSD, that may be partially true. So, why do I think that's *not* what you meant? /sarcasm/
Oops. I actually meant his BDD.
Cowboy, I looked at the thread below. You mostly threw out insults.
Lol. I think you need to put your glasses on...
I have much love for EVERYones Right to express and represent. But right now, in this moment, YukonCornelius, I have deep respect for your effort and words here, and I stand with you. Thank you.
But, you weren't alone in throwing around insults, to be fair. So did everybody else on that thread.
I 100% agree with Gonzo.
Stiletto was on his high horse, once again, insulting lip's intelligence. I didn't insult him once. Unless you count "Smarty pants"...
Cowboy: "Oops. I actually meant his BDD."
That doesn't even make sense.
Cowboy: "How about you read the Constitution of the U.S. and not the Communist Manifesto."
It makes complete sense. Body Dysmorphic Disorder. That's his mental illness.
And every time you call her a "him," it's an insult.
Healthcare isn't a Constitutional amendment. The right to bear arms is. Healthcare IS found in Marx's work. That's not an insult. It's a fact.
He is a man. That also is a fact.
Cowboy, I'm not going to debate again, the difference between transgender and Body Dysmorphic Disorder. You will believe what you have decided to believe, regardless. But even if you were right, it wouldn't be relevant to how she comments in a poll.
Yes. I choose to believe in biology, not a mental disorder. I won't apologize for it.
I see another case of verbal diarrhea from the usual suspect.
Cowboy, your first fact is technically correct, but not relevant. There are many other documents, other than the Communist Manifesto, that reference health care. I disagree with your second "fact."
However, I have chores to get done this evening. I'm going to let you have the last word, just out of expediency. It's been "fun."
You're free to disagree with facts, if you really want to. It's irrational and wrong, but you have the right.
Nemacyst made a rational and detailed argument. SM didn't even try to address what was said. I too would call for peace if BOTH sides were attacking, but that wasn't the case. Stop excusing her bad behavior.
We can learn a lot from Europe, do the opposite. Nothing good will come from them socialists.
Except they're succeeding where America is failing. Education, healthcare, human development index
That's also false, we are still the most prosperous nation on earth, despite what you socialists are attempting.
you must not be a fan of objective data.
You can be "prosperous" and still be failing against other countries in sectors like education and healthcare and overall development.
what's a lie is you tying Gross Domestic Product to a million other categories where other countries do things better than America.
I'm not into fairy tales, just the facts which you are sorely lacking.
Your kidding right? You can't believe the crap your peddling?
You're in some alternate universe where facts don't exist.
Here in reality, America doesn't lead the world in every single category and it's insane to think they do.
I live in the real world where leftist dreams are not facts.
do you even know what the human development index is?
Propaganda foisted on us by the UN. Prattle espoused by liberals.
Absolutely agree lip. We are Americans.
it's a simpleton's view to think that academic studies you disagree with are propaganda when you have no academic studies of your own.
I'll chalk this one up as a win :)
That's why we call that bs you are peddling for what it is, junk science.
"How dare you rely on statistics and data?! Derp derp!"
you're full of hot air and lots of blustering junior.
It's apparent you have no data and are essentially wrong on lots of stuff.
Go back to school :)
Why? So more libiots can attempt to foist junk propaganda on me?
How about you read the Constitution of the U.S. and not the Communist Manifesto.
Statics and data can and are often manipulated. Usual by a liberal with an agenda.
Reality must be difficult for you to acknowledge. Some people are just smarter and more accomplished than you will ever be. Many of them work for the UN. You should just get used to that :)
Posting a page by an institution run and lead by dictators and socialists ain't helping you.
you mean college-educated individuals. Clearly you're a buffoon.
Which amendment to the Constitution is healthcare, Mr. Smarty pants?
The guardian? What's next the national inquirer? Mad magazine?
I bet you still believe in the Easter bunny too.
are you really that stupid?
So much for him trying to be nicer... I knew that poll was bullshit.
Here in reality, newspapers cover stories where other people generate the data.
Jesus. Get this kid into a classroom.
Cowboy it's the hidden one in the obummer care bill.
That's just what you'd like all those nea minions trying to brain wash me.
If you're too stupid to learn things, I won't waste my time trying to teach you.
Bye now :)
Teach me? Not with that drival. Or you could wait till they lobotomies me so what you say makes sense.
Well, kinda. People advocating for access to guns aren't advocating for the use of gov money (your neighbor's money) to buy them with.
I'd say this instead: wouldn't it be wonderful if medical costs were like they used to be before there was so much gov involvement.
The advent of gov programs in the 60s has had a major impact on how the industry operates.
Exactly. If more people understood that the gov is the reason for our exorbitant medical costs, they might not be so hip on further gov involvement that leads to increased costs that leads to further gov involvement that leads to increased costs...
If it wasn't for the government, insurance companies would charge whatever they wanted for any number of things.
You do realize it's regulation that's meant to protect people, right? You're arguing that without government intervention companies
would be benevolent and that's incredibly false. If that were true, the Department of Labor would not exist to ensure people are paid a decent wage or that employers actually provide safe working conditions. You can't trust profiteers that way.
Private insurance is also a problem, but it's one that's exacerbated by gov regs. Adding bureaucratic layers to the process means increasing costs whether they be insurance co. bureaucracy or gov bureaucracy.
Insurance co. have huge employee expenses, marketing expenses, etc. It's a very large burden to hang on whoever is paying for it when it could be as simple as the health consumer paying directly. It was this way for everybody
before the insurance and gov programs came about. It used to be that doctors competed for business. Now the fees paid are uniform and set by the insurance company and are padded on both sides (insurance and doctor) with enough money
to pay for the paperwork battle that goes back-and-forth before anything gets paid. Each side has an army of people who throw papers at the other side until someone relents or a decision is made.
Remember how the costs for a cell phone used to be 2-3k when they first came out and they were the size of a football? Market pressures and consumer demand (competition) acted to produce smaller and cheaper phones. The same could happen "again"
if the gov would get uninvolved. I say we unleash the doctors and hospitals against each other by letting them compete for our business. Turn the consumer lose with phone calls getting quotes on medical procedures and you'll see prices drop.
you're describing what it was like before the government stepped in and poor people were just left to die.
This is basic history
reason.com/reasontv/2012/11/15/the-obamacare-revolt-oklahoma-doctors-fi There's a nascent movement of truly "free market" healthcare out there and it is MUCH cheaper. Stilett. It is history, but there's always been charitable programs
programs to help the poor. It would be much cheaper for charities to help if, well, healthcare were cheaper. There's also many providers that would expand their help. There's a baptist church nearby that runs its own pharmacy just for poor people.
They don't require that anybody be a member to get free meds. This is "their mission," so to speak. Many other examples exist where good folks will help people in need.
You can also look at medical industries that aren't insured & regulated. Plastic surgery & LASIK surgery are medical procedures that are far, far more affordable than those covered by insurance. LASIK, in particular, has gone down in price year after
year due to competition. Neither industry is forced to accept & treat patients for next to nothing either so they don't have those extra costs to pay that are hoisted on hospitals & other medical providers.
There's a doctor in Oklahoma that's known for spending one Saturday every few weeks giving LASIK to patients that can't afford it.
I'm so closeted that I've got moths nesting in my ass crack. :-)
Good convo everybody and good poll SM!!!!!
There's no passion and fury for ensuring people have access to doctors because everyone already has access to doctors & no one has tried to pass laws making access to certain types of doctors illegal.
please explain how "everyone has access to doctors"?
You have no right to medical care.
^ that's part of the issue. Much of the rest of the Western world has already realized how imperative it is.
It'll never happen, you have no right to others labor.
There are no laws in existence that prevent access to doctors. Therefore everyone has access. Please explain how anyone doesn't have access.
when prices are artificially inflated by insurance companies and the health and well-being of the citizenry is reduced to a profit motive, then no, not everyone has access.
Our country can learn a great deal from our European friends.
"You have no right to others labor"
^ this is patently false. Your over-simplification doesn't take into account essential public services like the police or disaster response teams.
Why should my taxes go to your health care?
because it works everywhere else they try it.
Why should my taxes go to support your imperialist agenda if you're a conservative?
That's a conversation we can have all day.
It doesn't change the fact that it works just fine elsewhere.
If you'd like to do the bidding on behalf of billionaire insurance companies, at least ask yourself why you even feel that way.
No it doesn't, that's a blatant lie. It leads to rationing, lower quality medical care. And practicing eugenics.
What part of it is a lie? It's successful in other countries.
What's a lie is how you think your viewpoint is actually your own and not just your propaganda fed to you by billionaires.
Then your is funded by Soros touché.
you don't lose then say touché.
You poor thing.
Maybe the real world is just too much for you to comprehend.
? Throwing your baseless insinuations back at you is losing?
you still have no data. And you're still wrong :)
I believe the point Krystina was making is that there is access to health care for everyone. People can go to the free clinic, the ER, even some doctors do pro bono work. I think what you mean, stiletto, is access to doctors for preventive care. Even
Only to you, and those pesky voices in your head.
without an insurance plan one could negotiate payment in cash and see a doctor and dentist at least once a year for no more than a few hundred dollars total.
Till the dims figure that out and make it illegal.
"Numbers are hard! Derp!"
I'd love to chat more with you, but I'm off in per suit of another trade license so I can make more money to help brainwash the masses.
Hah, good point.
Sad to say healthcare is not a right under the Constitution but guns which can end a life are - it is a statement of the USA society.
I'd much rather healthcare was treated as an essential public service, and not just a protected right for the few who can afford to pay for it. The "right" to purchase healthcare at your own expense has never been questioned or relentlessly attacked.
You know better than to take a generalization and present it as fact.
People do have that same passion for access to medical care, if not more. The problem is that everybody does not agree on the best method for making medical care available to everybody.
Much better no question. I'm afraid some would believe access to healthcare would somehow take away their guns.