Show of HandsShow of Hands

MrMilkdud October 26th, 2014 2:36pm

A gay couple travels to Kuwait. While visiting, they casually hold hands and kiss in public, unaware that homosexuality is illegal in Kuwait. They are arrested and jailed. Should the US pressure Kuwait to ignore its own laws and release this couple?

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Comments: Add Comment

cowboy Here and There
10/27/14 7:46 am

No. How do gays, women, and Christians, not know that Muslims hate them? Ignorance is no excuse.

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Statek Im from the Internet
10/27/14 6:49 am

If it was because they were Christian, the conservatives would completely abandon their current arguments

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MrMilkdud
10/27/14 7:32 am

And if it was because they accidentally carried a gun across the border, the liberals would completely abandon their position.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/27/14 6:46 am

Well it wasnt the holding hands that got them in trouble because thats very common between male friends in the middle east.

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/27/14 5:33 am

Sad that most of yall would abandon Americans because they are gay...

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MrMilkdud
10/27/14 7:34 am

It's because they're gay?
So....Does that mean liberals are abandoning Sgt Tamoreesi because he's a marine?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/27/14 7:38 am

I'm sorry, I don't equate carrying guns to the border the same as two adults holding hands. Tamoreesi should stand trial, and we should lobby for his release.

MrMilkdud
10/27/14 7:51 am

As you know, it isn't about "holding hands," it's about being gay.
And, more importantly, it's about whether we should intervene in another country's legal system when one of our citizens inadvertently breaks one of their laws.

MrMilkdud
10/27/14 7:51 am

And they didn't consult spellcheck when they issued his last name.

persuader
10/26/14 10:19 pm

Maybe gays should just avoid Kuwait.

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FarmerManE djent
10/27/14 6:43 am

Maybe they should avoid the Middle East. It doesn't have a good history of tolerance

Taylorism California
10/26/14 6:26 pm

The U.S. shouldn't be interfering in other countries laws and practices anymore than it already does

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sentiment Texas
10/26/14 6:20 pm

When in Rome ...

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Idahologger up north
10/26/14 5:49 pm

regardless of the law they broke, they should know what they are before entering another. .....even though we don't care what illegals do in America, it's easier to go after the good citizens for petty crap!

NikkiKitti47
10/26/14 5:40 pm

No the U.S. shouldn't. It's up the person/couple that travel to a country to read and understand laws

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ghallh
10/26/14 4:18 pm

Seeing how America owns Kuwait, yes

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/27/14 6:47 am

hahaha ever since the kuwaiti "liberation" theyre just american pawns. it may as well be a us territory.

rons screw politicians
10/26/14 4:04 pm

I wouldn't go there and I'm not gay!

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MrMilkdud
10/26/14 6:44 pm

What? I thought for sure you were gay, Ron!

iMatter2 I Used to Love H.E.R.
10/26/14 3:15 pm

Similar questions have been posted and again I say that anyone traveling to another country is responsible for becoming educated on that nation's laws.

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swervin Maryland
10/26/14 1:20 pm

No. We shouldn't be getting involved if people break the laws in other countries.

moonshot More often I know nothing
10/26/14 12:59 pm

Unjust laws should be actively challenged, no matter where they may be.

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iMatter2 I Used to Love H.E.R.
10/26/14 3:14 pm

what is unjust to some will not be unjust to others.

Injectable Mojave Mo Problems
10/26/14 12:59 pm

You'd be a couple of idiots for not looking into other country's laws before you travel. Especially if you're gay. I knew that was a bad idea before reading the question. Tough shit.

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Injectable Mojave Mo Problems
10/26/14 1:03 pm

This goes for anyone traveling to any country. The U.S. should say something, but you openly broke their laws. Very little leverage.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 12:05 pm

Funny seeing all the same people who, in rota's question about a Christian being arrested in a foreign country due to his illegal possession of a Bible, were saying stuff like "usually, a government can arrest according to their laws, but in this

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droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 12:07 pm

case, the law is unjust! They should only arrest unknowing foreigners for universally crimes like murder, theft, and rape!" and saying here that a foreign government has the right to do such a thing.

Hypocrite, much?

MrMilkdud
10/26/14 12:51 pm

You've agreed with me before that a government should deport foreigners for breaking local laws but detain and try them for universal laws like murder and rape, drooski.

MrMilkdud
10/26/14 12:52 pm

And why aren't you pointing out the hypocrisy of the left? the majority of democrats consistently said Sgt Tamoreesi should rot in prison for accidentally breaking Mexican gun laws, and that the U.S. shouldn't bully them into releasing him.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 12:56 pm

I did agree with you. I still do. I'm not saying *my* opinion has changed. I'm saying the cons in here have changed opinions.

And mostly because this isn't a Democrat/liberal poll so I'd be preaching to the choir. Usually I call out (and you can't

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 12:57 pm

deny that I *do* call out Dems and liberals on their double standards) (in fact, I just now criticized the dems on a third-trimester abortion poll) in polls where a good deal of Dems will inevitably be. This poll is just for the same cons who said

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 12:58 pm

a government shouldn't arrest a foreigner for possessing a Bible but its the gay couple's fault and the government has every right to arrest them.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 12:59 pm

(i.e If's comment below vs her comment in that poll).

MrMilkdud
10/26/14 1:00 pm

Both sides switched on this poll, pretty markedly. Why don't you share it and bump up the number of liberals in the results to see if the numbers hold.

MrMilkdud
10/26/14 1:01 pm

But I think you and I are on the same page about my general intent with this poll.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:02 pm

Because I don't share polls to bring in liberals. I know that's a conservative tactic (the SOH cons are getting ganged up on so they share to bring in the beloved SOH finest like cowboy, Scotty, Derek, Arkansas, etc. etc.) but I don't do that. I

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:03 pm

rarely ever share.

And yes, if you have the same answer that we did on the Bible-guy poll, we agree. I'm mostly calling out the users I *know* are being hypocritical.

MrMilkdud
10/26/14 1:03 pm

I'm not asking you to share to set a trap. I just wanted to see how the numbers played out. But whatever.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:04 pm

And you and I both know damn well thay many of these commenters saying "you should be familiar with the unjust laws of a country before you visit" (because you're gay) were the same ones decrying the foreign government for unjustly arresting the

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:05 pm

Christian.

Whatever. I just loathe double standards. I loathe them when feminazis have them, and I loathe them when the extreme religious right has them.

MrMilkdud
10/26/14 1:05 pm

I know that. Like I said, we're on the same page about why I posted this poll. People are being inconsistent.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:07 pm

Right then. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. You and I are often too busy setting traps and picking apart each other's arguments that I sometimes forget we don't *always* have to be nemeses. lol

Maynard Londor
10/26/14 1:24 pm

Yay for friendships being made! Ha

thebarr
10/26/14 1:28 pm

I'm right there with you. I said that they should be released.

dlaw4570
10/26/14 11:47 am

If the PDA was done out of ignorance, perhaps, if trying to make a statement of some kind...no

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Spartacus AUSTIN
10/26/14 11:42 am

No. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. If you willingly go someplace and don't know the laws beforehand, why should anyone care that you're too stupid to research what's allowed and what's not allowed.

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brenstal Florida
10/26/14 11:35 am

Of course, the guys should have looked up the laws beforehand and respected them. If the punishment is harsh though, the US should work to get them home. It was a minor offense. Just like the guy with the bible in North Korea.

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corino Utah
10/26/14 10:32 am

They are American citizens, US should pressure to have them sent home.

USNavyVet Sonar Man STG2
10/26/14 10:39 am

No we don't need them back,enough queers in this country!

lip massholevania
10/26/14 11:30 am

No, they went willingly to an Islamist nation. They broke that nations laws. Now they get punished.

Spartacus AUSTIN
10/26/14 12:07 pm

You're kind of a ignorant dick @ navy vet.

USNavyVet Sonar Man STG2
10/26/14 12:10 pm

Spartugus a pretty good one I think. :-)

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
10/26/14 10:22 am

If they are Americans, we need to try to get them home.

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mac Oregon
10/26/14 10:22 am

Pay a fine and come home where "freedom reigns". I can't believe folks here who talk/ demand freedoms and are still anti-gay. So, it is only freedom in your belief system? Founding fathers would restrict your rum and call you dumb...

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JDoe Its a gift
10/26/14 9:54 am

Well, since US military came to their aid when they were invaded by Iraq, it seems like they could show some compassion could be expected when the laws were not intentionally broken in this case.

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Extremist The Batcave
10/26/14 9:51 am

Perhaps the U.S. should adopt similar laws..

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GubraLagima Tramp 2016
10/26/14 10:00 am

Your name fits you well

DonWichita Kansas
10/26/14 9:36 am

Not pressure, but request.

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EarlyBird Portland
10/26/14 8:04 am

It is the responsibility of travelers to educate themselves on the cultures and laws of the countries before arriving :)

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gonzoboy Arizona
10/26/14 9:07 am

Amen, EB! Worthy of note is that this doesn't apply only to gay folks. I've repeatedly heard of couples who were NOT gay, arrested for 'public displays of affection', in a number of Muslim-majority countries. The U.S. is under NO obligation, here.

lip massholevania
10/26/14 11:31 am

Well put chickadee.

ScrewU Gone
10/26/14 11:39 am

Stone the heretics!

Sorry. Too far?

GlockMan1 Alabama
10/26/14 8:03 am

If you are a homosexual, you better know the laws of Islamic countries. They will not treat you the same as a Christian nation.

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drunk ill be Bach
10/26/14 9:08 am

Granted there will be some similarities.

GlockMan1 Alabama
10/26/14 9:41 am

Yes. We both recognize sin as sin.

lip massholevania
10/26/14 11:32 am

Indeed, how foolish were they to go there in the first place.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 12:08 pm

Glock, would you say the same if a foreign country arrested a man for possessing the Bible?

FarmerManE djent
10/26/14 7:53 am

They committed the crime, therefore they serve the punishment

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TomM
10/26/14 7:44 am

I believe you have to follow the local laws, this would also include women have to cover up in the Middle East and not carrying a weapon when going to Mexico. It's not the government's job to save people from trouble when not following laws.

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MrMilkdud
10/26/14 7:41 am

For any loophole hunters, the gay couple is from the U.S.

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thebarr
10/26/14 7:39 am

If rights and morality are culturally defined, or if "might makes right", then Kuwait is right by definition.

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droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 11:53 am

Funny. What happened to that hypothetical guy arrested in NK for possessing a Bible? Hypocrite.

thebarr
10/26/14 1:25 pm

That's my point. Rights and morality aren't cultural. Not for this couple, not for the guy with the Bible.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:27 pm

No. Morals are up to the individual. Laws are not (or shouldn't be) based on morals, however. They should be based upon a violation of rights. Rights =/= morals.

thebarr
10/26/14 1:31 pm

The concept of rights is a moral concept. But I thought that you didn't believe in rights? That rights are defined by what the gov't decides to grant? I may be confusing you with another user. (Sorry!)

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:35 pm

Rights are not a moral concept. And yes, I don't believe rights are inherent. Either a government or a cooperative people/society determine what are rights. Unless you can tell me an objective source of rights besides feelings? But I do think that

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:36 pm

rights don't have to be inherent to be beneficial. Once a people establish a set of rights, laws should be formulated around those rights.

thebarr
10/26/14 1:39 pm

Fine, if the gov't defines rights (which I don't agree with) then that couple belongs in jail. The Kuwaiti gov't has decided that they don't have the right to be gay. That's the point of my original post.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:41 pm

To them, they do. To us (or me) they don't. These polls ask *my* opinion. I don't have to believe or acknowledge that everyone agrees with me about what is or what isn't a right to fight against something.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:43 pm

Just like, in the past, blacks and women didn't have rights. They fought *for* rights. The government, once society demed it so, eventually granted them rights. Abolitionists and women's rights advocates didn't have to acknowledge a universal truth

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:43 pm

to fight for a subjective morality.

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:45 pm

Also, might I ask where we find objective morals or rights? Where is this objective source which no one can agree with? If you're basing what is or isn't a right on what you feel, you're only reinforcing my point. But if you do have some objective

droo Santa Barbara
10/26/14 1:45 pm

source, I'll change my opinion in a heart beat.

thebarr
10/26/14 1:58 pm

So you are arguing for a meaningless personal preference, like whether to crack an egg from the little end or big end. I'm arguing for an axiomatic non-physical truth, like a mathematical equation.

thebarr
10/26/14 1:59 pm

People may have debates in higher mathematics, but no one thinks math is opinion. Morality is the same way.