Show of HandsShow of Hands

droo October 24th, 2014 2:11am

A video has been causing quite the controversy as it features little girls repeatedly using the "f-bomb" to deliver the modern-day feminist message. Adults wrote the script and had children recite. Do you find the video offensive or morally wrong?

7 Liked

Comments: Add Comment

thebarr
10/26/14 6:42 am

Even more offensive than the f-bombs are the bullshit statistics. Will this lies ever die?

jmw7477 Indiana
10/24/14 7:45 pm

I love it! I think it's a great message.

Reply
ladyniner81 no hope for humanity
10/24/14 7:27 pm

I fell asleep reading these comments.

Reply
commonsense America isnt racist
10/24/14 12:21 pm

The left likes to use kids to further their silly agenda. It's sickening.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/24/14 2:56 pm

It's sickening when people use kids to further their political ideals?

typetype level 2 pretty
10/24/14 7:16 am

the girls an actress. Prolly was great for her resume, proves she can do adult themed stuff. I'm sure her agent is trying to get her a casting audition for a rated r film right now.

Wackacrat Harford County
10/24/14 4:31 am

It's hard to take them seriously. They went for a shocking in a cute way but not one of those girls knew what they were preaching. They were being used as much as they were complaining about how women have been used.

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runschmoopie WNY
10/24/14 5:09 am

I agree.

ScrewU Gone
10/24/14 3:55 am

Utterly offensive, and nothing but bullshit feminist propaganda.

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Uriel12
10/23/14 11:37 pm

I agree with equality, I know all feminists don't hate men. I do have a problem with women who do hate men and radical feminist groups. this video is very inappropriate because it uses children for an adult topic and it generalizes men as an enemy.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/25/14 7:35 am

1. It does not generalize men as an enemy.

2. Girls are affected by these attitude so, too. It is not solely and adult topic.

Uriel12
10/25/14 9:54 am

I have 6 likes and you have none. Therefore I win. >:p

Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/23/14 10:16 pm

I found it adorable and morally cute. Some of the girls really captured the attitude. Get past the obligatory feigned outrage, and I think you'll find many people thought the message was a fresh take on an old and very persistent problem.

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droo Santa Barbara
10/25/14 1:15 am

Shelly? Haven't seen you in ages.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/23/14 9:49 pm

Terribly offensive, with proven falsehoods (22% wage gap, 1 in 5 women will be abused). And it's child abuse.

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droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:49 pm

The shitty part of having mostly liberals on my follower's list is that when I state an opinion even slightly veering from the left, I get exiled from the pack and left to die :-'( #justoutlierthings #ymyfellowliberalsnoluvmenomo

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iBakes California
10/23/14 8:56 pm

I think you're awesome. I would still think you're awesome even if all your political opinions suddenly shifted to the ultra-right. I just didn't appreciate what happened below.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 9:09 pm

Thank you. You're one of my favorite users, regardless of some intense interactions we've had in the past.

ScrewU Gone
10/24/14 5:21 am

That's because at its core liberalism is about bullying. I do see that you apply reason - a trait liberals often lack.

iBakes California
10/24/14 6:33 am

All you do on this app is leave comments trying to insult & intimidate liberals. You shouldn't be accusing anybody of bullying unless your goal is to be a giant hypocrite.

WildRice With a side of sass
10/23/14 8:37 pm

I saw this on a previous poll and to me it was distracting and took away from what the actual issues they were trying to discuss. I think absolutely that these issues need to be addressed and paid attention too but IMO this was the wrong vehicle.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:44 pm

This was just a couple of minutes on Google.

What do you think I'd find with more thorough research? This isn't just Fox News and Limbaugh.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:50 pm

I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were saying that news pundits were constantly victim blaming. I don't doubt that victim blaming exists in cases like this, and it should be stopped.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:17 pm

You're beautiful.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:19 pm

And so are all my followers. This is my thank you for sticking it through with drooski, even though half my polls are offensive and obnoxious. I love you all :-')

- Your friendly neighborhood Satan-worshipping, Marxist misogynist

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:29 pm

I've not been offended by a single one of your polls. :-)

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:31 pm

I like this thread. It has warm fuzzies. Can I hang out here?

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:31 pm

Scuse me. Warm fuzzies AND commie Satanists ❤️

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:32 pm

I have a tendency to make people feel all fuzzy inside, especially religious people and feminists- they see my name and want to give me a big warm hug. :-) <3

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:37 pm

Bethany, you can hang out wherever you like. :-)

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:45 pm

... is irrelevant to the question.

SaintAnger sumkindamonster
10/23/14 7:47 pm

I'm just referring to the language. I don't care what language a kid uses.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:53 pm

I don't either. But the First Amendment is irrelevant to the opinion of whether or not something is inappropriate.

SaintAnger sumkindamonster
10/23/14 7:55 pm

Depends what you're asking is inappropriate, the coaching of the children or the f-bombs.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 7:26 pm

The line about teaching men not to rape is what got to me.
1. Not all rapists are men
2. The unbelievably vast majority of men are not rapists. I have never raped anyone, I never want to. I'm tired of being treated like a rapist by feminists.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 7:33 pm

What does 2 have to do with anything?

I personally haven't murdered anyone. The vast majority of people, in fact, have not murdered anyone. Therefore ... we shouldn't talk about murder as though it's a problem?

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:37 pm

No, we can say it's a problem, but saying "WE NEED TO TEACH MURDER IS WRONG THEN THERE WILL BE NO MORE MURDER" is stupid, and the same with rape. Most everyone knows murder is wrong. We *already* teach that. Our society does not condone murder at all

Maj Worth Economist
10/23/14 7:38 pm

That line has to be taken in context with the first half of the same sentence: "Stop telling girls how to dress..." It refers to the victim-blaming that lots of rape victims get thrown at them.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:39 pm

so it's a bit redundant to insist that we stop condoning it. Telling murderers that murder is wrong isn't going to stop them just like telling rapists that rape is wrong isn't going to stop them. Also, like Skar stated, the video implied that men

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:40 pm

are the sole perpetrators of rape, and was directed to men as a whole. Why not just direct your video at rapists? Most homicides are committed by men but that doesn't mean most men have committed a homicide. A video against murder which was directed

iBakes California
10/23/14 7:41 pm

Have either of the males in this thread seen Tough Guise or Tough Guise 2?

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:41 pm

toward men is just as stupid. "Men, you need to stop murdering people" would be the equivalent of this modern-day feminist rhetoric.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 7:43 pm

That's a straw man. They didn't say it would completely eliminate rape. Guess what: neither will victim-blaming or any amount of guilting women into curtailing their lives. As to the sex of perpetrators, do you deny the vast majority are men?

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:46 pm

I do not deny the majority of rapists are men. See my comment about the majority of men being rapists for the reason why that's irrelevant anyway.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:47 pm

Also, know that even though I don't doubt a majority of rapists are male, we don't have the proper statistics as most male who are victims of sexual (and domestic) violence will not report due to sexism against men. Feminists don't acknowledge this.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:47 pm

my comment about the majority of men being murderers*

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 7:47 pm

How about instead of teaching people how to defend themselves, we just teach blacks not to murder? It's the same logic, just applied to a race instead of a gender.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:49 pm

I condone murderers and jumpers and muggers because I tell my son not to walk alone at night and to take self-defense courses to protect himself. Just like I condone rapists because I tell my daughter not to walk alone at night or leave her drink out

iBakes California
10/23/14 7:49 pm

I'll take that as a no. You both should watch them. Tough Guise 2 is better than the first, start with that if you only want to watch one.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:52 pm

What is it? Another anti-male video aimed at proving most men are rapists and the ones who aren't are responsible for the actions of the ones who are?

iBakes California
10/23/14 7:55 pm

No, it's a documentary about masculinity. It's great, and it's shown in the progressive men's rights group I help run. Maybe use google before being a angsty little dickbag.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 7:55 pm

I can tell by the description of Tough Guise 2 that it's not relevant. I don't play into masculinity/femininity bullshit. All I see is a bunch of people on the internet treating me like a criminal because I have a dick.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 7:57 pm

Women have it worse in some ways, men have it worse in some ways. Instead of trying to alleviate either gender's problems, feminists attempt to vilify men and non-feminists as if it achieves something other than perpetuating animosity and hate.

iBakes California
10/23/14 7:58 pm

When you consistently play the martyr card, I'm sure that's all you're able to see, yeah.

iBakes California
10/23/14 7:59 pm

You should try actually talking/listening to a feminist/treat one like a person sometime. Hearing what feminists actually believe & work towards might relieve some of your anger & persecution complex.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:00 pm

Do you know what a martyr is? I'm not claiming that I'm sacrificing anything, I'm just tired of the unwarranted hostility.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:01 pm

I don't have anger towards feminists. When I talk to feminists in the real world they're perfectly reasonable, but they get on the Internet and suddenly they have a fucking axe to grind. Kind of like you.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:03 pm

But what do I know, I'm just a man. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go cut some women's paychecks so that I can give their male coworkers a big raise.

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:04 pm

Yeah, suggesting that you both watch a documentary about masculinity that has nothing to do with feminism is such a feministic axe to grind. Looooool. So is asking you to talk & listen to people. What a big bad wolf I am! Hahaha

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:04 pm

Every time a female rape victim is questioned in the media about what she wore, or if she was drinking, or anything about her behavior, it screams the message that the rape might somehow have been prevented if she just didn't provoke those dang

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:04 pm

I even know plenty of feminists on the Internet that are legitimately interested in equal rights, but angry people like you are the majority.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:05 pm

Give me one example of a female rape victim being interrogated about what she wore that doesn't come from Fox News.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:06 pm

...males. We just can't help ourselves. Boys will be boys. She was asking for it.

A woman should be able to walk naked and drunk down the street and not have to worry about being sexually assaulted.

I get extremely offended by the idea that

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:06 pm

"Hey check out this documentary I share in the MEN'S rights group I help run."
"CLEARLY YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT WOMEN YOURE AWFUL & HYSTERICAL & I LIKE TO COMPLAIN. OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE ANGRY BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!"

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:08 pm

...somehow us guys can't help ourselves.

We fucking can. Sexual assault is NEVER the fault of the victim, yet our society constantly questions and promotes scrape culture that alleviated the guilt from men, and instead squints slyly at the

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:09 pm

Sorry, men's rights groups are ridiculous.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:10 pm

...woman. She really wanted to be with the football star. She was throwing herself at him all night. She kissed him, she obviously wanted to fuck. She was a slut who had sex with lots of guys; of course she wanted to have with him. She just

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:11 pm

Victim-blaming is extraordinarily rare, except in some scumbag conservative minorities (but since when did their opinions represent society's?), but even so, victim-blaming affects both genders and making it seem as if it's all the fault of men

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:11 pm

Cite, I know you're going on a wee rant there, but I'd still like an example.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:11 pm

...regrets the sex and wants to get even.

I'm disgusted with this.

And none of this is lessening the idea of male victims. The problems with under reporting of sexual assault on males is a problem, and one that should be addressed. But

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:12 pm

So you complain that feminists don't fight for equal rights then when a feminist tells you she fights for equal rights of all people you say it's ridiculous. Okay. You should watch Tough Guise 2 anyway.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:13 pm

is illogical. Why should I be responsible for the works of a douchebag extreme minority?

Also, cite, I agree. A woman should be able to do that. I don't see how rape is justified even if the girl is naked and flirtatious. What's your point?

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:13 pm

...it's not required that women fighting for female equality spend all of their time and resources equally between the two.

If male sexual assault reporting is a cause you believe in, go for it. Dive in. Do good work.

It doesn't lessen the

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:13 pm

...issues with woman and the pervasive rape culture.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:14 pm

Example of what, in specific, Skar?

And no, victim blaming is not rare.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:14 pm

A documentary about how I'm some homicidal rapist maniac because I'm a male and therefore aggressive? No thanks

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:15 pm

Apologies, all, the brought I was posting after a conversation, not in the middle.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:16 pm

"Give me one example of a female rape victim being interrogated about what she wore that doesn't come from Fox News."

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:17 pm

Of course the existence of men's issues don't lessen the importance of women's issues, cite. I hate misogynistic asshats just like I hate misandric ones. But, a movement claiming to fight for the equality of both sexes should address inequalities in

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:17 pm

iBakes, men's rights groups don't fight for equal rights. That's absurd.

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:18 pm

That's not what it's about skar, if you watched it you would find out. You may even learn a thing or two, or even enjoy the documentary. You never know.

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:18 pm

No worries, cite.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:19 pm

Somehow I feel like I wouldn't be surprised or impressed.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:20 pm

Droo, I'm a feminist and I regularly acknowledge that sexual assault against men is under-reported and not taken seriously enough, and that this is a problem. Why do you assert propositions like that when they are so easy to refute?

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:21 pm

A typical men's rights group is shaped around being threatened by feminists & fighting for male privilege. That's why I said "progressive men's rights" group, which deals with inequalities men face & fighting for equality, just like a feminist group.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:22 pm

Bethany, we had this exact argument moons ago and you deliberately downplayed sexual assault against men. Stop lying.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:22 pm

Bethany, you're one of the few. Your actions aren't the actions of a majority of feminists. A majority of feminists are appalled at even the idea of sexism against men.

Maj Worth Economist
10/23/14 8:23 pm

@cite - "I get extremely offended by the idea that somehow us guys can't help ourselves." Afuckingmen.
@iBakes - I watched what I could find of TG2 online, but it isn't easy to access, nor is it cheap. What I saw, though, was excellent. Thanks. :)

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:23 pm

lol iBakes can stereotype a typical MRA or MRA group but as soon as I categorize a feminist or feminist group NOT ALL FEMINISTS ARE THE SAME STOP JUDGING BY THE ACTIONS OF THE FEW *TECHNICALLY* FEMINISM MEANS *THIS*

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:25 pm

I have yet to see a men's rights group, progressive or otherwise, that seeks to achieve anything other than a legitimate patriarchy (not that feminist bullshit)

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:27 pm

Droo, did you really expect her to NOT have blatant double standards? She's just the same as the feminists I talk to on YouTube

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:28 pm

Stating the difference between men's rights groups & progressive men's rights groups is very different than you making things up & pretending you know what all feminists think.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/23/14 8:28 pm

Skar, I'm going to post a new thread above with some examples so I don't flood the thread.

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:29 pm

No problem, Maj. It might be on Amazon Prime, just fyi incase you have a subscription.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:29 pm

Skar, link or stfu.

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:30 pm

I hope this is the ego boost you both are in need of, droo & skar. Because really, mocking people who truly do fight for equal rights just because you don't like that they identify as feminists makes you look like asshats.

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:31 pm

Look at how this thread went. I recommend a documentary that has nothing to do with feminism & you both come roaring with the anti-feminism stuff and make sure to turn it into a way to criticize how I fight for equal rights.

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:31 pm

Take a step back & evaluate the situation here. I'm not the angry one of the group.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:31 pm

It was on my old account which got deleted because of false flaggers, but I remember exactly what it was. It was a poll about a video experiment where a man was abusing a woman in public and vice versa. In the video the man was stopped immediately by

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:31 pm

Right, I'm an egomaniacal, misogynistic asshat. Tell me something I don't know.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:33 pm

bystanders, but the woman got laughs and cheers when she abused the man. In the comments you essentially argued that men shouldn't be taken seriously in that situation since it happens to women more often.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:34 pm

Skar, rather than knee-jerk jump to calling YOU a liar, I'm going to assume you simply got me confused with someone else, or perhaps misunderstood and misinterpreted something I did say. That is not something I would ever say.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:34 pm

I'm not angry, or even annoyed. You're the one hurling insults because you know that your arguments are illegitimate.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:35 pm

I'm not mistaken. I explicitly remember it was you. If the SoH flagging system wasn't such shit I could show you too.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:37 pm

Fuck my ego. I've got my id to worry about. At this point I might as well not have an ego. But I hope trying to make me out as a self-centered prick makes you feel better. You're clearly angry about something else and taking it out on us.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:38 pm

You're wrong, Skar. Bottom line. Hiding behind the fact that you pissed people off enough that your account got deleted is pretty convenient. I'll have to remember that trick next time I want to misrepresent someone. Except that I don't do that.

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:40 pm

Do you really think that I forced people to flag me so that my account could be deleted so that I could lie about what you said in an argument months down the line? I thought you knew me well enough to know that I don't think that far in advance

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:44 pm

Bethany: I remember the whole ordeal, because it was the day I realized how unpleasant you were to talk to. That's why I tend to deliberately avoid you, with the exception of tonight.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:49 pm

Of course I'm not suggesting you planned ahead. I'm saying it's a convenient excuse you've seized upon. Glad you find me unpleasant. It would be awkward if that sentiment went only one way!

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 8:52 pm

I really wish I could show you, because now I immediately look like a liar. I don't expect anyone to believe me, and I don't doubt that you forgot what you said, but I remembered. That's good enough reason for me to ignore you in the future.

SFLiberal
10/23/14 9:06 pm

Wow

Skarface69 Retired
10/23/14 9:08 pm

Don't even bother. I already know what side you're on and what you're going to say.

Maj Worth Economist
10/23/14 9:51 pm

@Skar - Web users have a much longer poll life than mobile SoH users. I can see every one of your polls going back to April 2013. The video [I think] you're talking about was published May 22, 2014. If Bethany said what you recall, I can't find it.

Maj Worth Economist
10/23/14 9:53 pm

I found this one from here ( bit.ly/1gPro9T ): "I really dislike the cultural acceptance of violence by women on men. It likely contributes to the high rates of (largely unreported) domestic violence against men."

Maj Worth Economist
10/23/14 9:54 pm

"But you could also argue that a woman hitting a man is worse because she knows cultural mores will keep him from hitting her back - make her in a sense the "stronger party." What's really telling is the statistics on domestic violence against men."

Maj Worth Economist
10/23/14 9:56 pm

(That one is from this poll: bit.ly/1f3bY0i ). So if it exists, it's from some other poll that I can't find after searching for women, women hit, girl hit, domestic abuse, sexist, sexism, prank, double standard (and a couple others).

Maj Worth Economist
10/23/14 9:58 pm

My purpose is not to prove you wrong - it's to try to improve communication. Because I don't think that Bethany is who you think she is (she's been outspoken against any kind of violence for as long as I've been on SoH - even hitting in jest).

Maj Worth Economist
10/23/14 9:59 pm

i can haz frendz now?

Skarface69 Retired
10/24/14 3:36 am

I said multiple times that it was one of MY polls. I'm not Cole.

Skarface69 Retired
10/24/14 3:40 am

But I appreciate you trying to put me on blast to defend Bethany

iBakes California
10/24/14 6:38 am

Maj did a keyword search and posted anything of relevance. The point was not only is it not in a poll of yours, it doesn't exist anywhere else either. Maj stated the intent was to clear Bethany, not attack you. Let's not revisit the martyr idea.

Skarface69 Retired
10/24/14 1:19 pm

Like I said, I don't expect anyone to believe me, especially not you.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/24/14 2:55 pm

I'm beginning to remember why I had Skar on ignore for awhile.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 7:21 pm

Of course not. Obviously the kids' parents signed off on it. If parents want to let their kids swear, I don't know what other people are getting worked up about. They can raise their own kids differently. Who cares?

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droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:16 pm

The major problem I have is the misleading and false statistics (which have consistently been disproven by economists and statisticians). Also, it portrays sexism as one-sided, and uses the same feminist rhetoric that all men are responsible for the

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droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:18 pm

actions of the few. The video irked me, but not because of the cussing. Curse words are merely sounds which we attribute an unnecessarily negative connotation. But teaching kids lies then telling them to recite the lies is inherently immoral.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 7:22 pm

I understand what you're saying about the stats being misleading (there are fair points on both sides) but what are the "lies" you heard?

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:27 pm

Misleading statistics are another form of lying. For example, the 77% statistic recited by the blonde girl followed by the "for the same fucking work" line. Bullshit. The 23% gap can mostly be attributed to differences in choice of major and career

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:30 pm

fields. Also- length of occupation, interruptions in career (getting pregnant, then having to forfeit your career to give birth and take care of the children), differences in behavior, etc. etc.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 7:32 pm

Ahh, okay. I thought you were suggesting he video contained actual falsehoods.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:32 pm

So, no- not "for the same fucking work". These kids don't understand the error in these feminist statistics, either, and haven't been presented both sides. They're merely tools for hip college liberals at the end to play with. It's sickening.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:32 pm

"Women get paid 77 cents for every dollar that a man gets for the same work" is a falsehood.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 7:35 pm

True. It's not literally identical work. But the statistic does compare full-time workers. I'm familiar with the various ways to parse out the statistic. I, too, find the whole thing sickening, but sadly it would seem for different reasons.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:43 pm

Who cares if it compares full-time workers between two groups made up of entirely different percentages of different workers? The disparity between two the income of two groups doesn't imply oppression or some type of -ism if the disparity has been

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:44 pm

proven to be due to the individual choices of the individuals within said groups.

iBakes California
10/23/14 7:48 pm

There's a pay gap even for same work, same field, same qualifications. No, it isn't as large, but it exists. Just like a gap between white earnings & non-white earnings exist. Pretending like it doesn't to rant about feminism isn't productive or wise

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:50 pm

I never said it doesn't exist. Reread my comments. I said "most" of the gap decreases. I'm not denying the wage gap exists. I'm saying that even if it does, you can't just manipulate facts and statistics to fit your argument. Why is this unacceptable

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:51 pm

for every statistic that isn't a feminist one? Why the double standard?

iBakes California
10/23/14 7:57 pm

You're so emotional right now you don't seem to notice what either of us are actually saying. I haven't stated a false statistic or supported using misleading statistics. I said a wage gap exists, which is true.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 7:58 pm

"The 23% gap can mostly be attributed to..."

When did I ever state it doesn't exist? Sounds like *you* don't understand what *I'm* saying.

political Georgia
10/23/14 8:00 pm

Drooski, you are actually right. Congrats! :)

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:01 pm

"...if the disparity has been proven to be due to the individual choices of the individuals within said groups." That's what I was responding to when saying it exists even for identical work/qualifications.

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:02 pm

I never accused you of saying a gap doesn't exist. Seriously, chill out.

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:15 pm

"protending that it doesn't to rant about feminism"

uh, yes- yes you did

iBakes California
10/23/14 8:23 pm

I must have missed the comment where I specifically accused you of doing this in addition to making a broad statement about a gap existing.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:25 pm

Even to the extent it is explained by "choices" (while conveniently ignoring the very real sexist pressures on both men and women), it's a helpful statistic because it drives home the point that as a society, overall, we are collectively structuring

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:26 pm

ourselves in a manner that in some meaningful sense values women, and teaches women to value themselves, in a way that translates into less cash money. I don't love sound bites any more than you do, but the bottom line is that most people aren't

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/23/14 8:27 pm

going to be moved if you present them with a nuanced, in-depth analysis of the issues. But give them a big "wow" statistic like that and they are more likely to investigate it and LEARN about that nuance. It worked on you, didn't it?

droo Santa Barbara
10/23/14 8:30 pm

It's funny how you're justifying a lie because it has a shock factor. I'll keep a note of that for future reference.