Show of Hands

Is the question to agree/oppose: the green card preorder? Or the executive order/abuse of presidential power?

im not, Im of mixed racial origin and my Creek side still thinks it's BS. This is just a way of gaining a perminant democrat majority. This is aginst the Constitution, and is putting non-Americans above his own people.

A perfect plan to ensure an increased liberal voting base. 1) Take an issue that divides a nation 2) Plant party flag on the side that benefits non-citizens and feign concern for them 3) Convert non-citizen to voting-citizen 4) Lock in those votes!

"And we're a republic"
I don't know what you're talking about :^(

ERN - it's because of this number's size you should have immediately been skeptical of this site's reporting. The new cards are part of the gov's making imm and work cards harder to forge for the approx 40M current legal immigrants. It has

Absolutely nothing to do with a pending EO as the UK's answer to the National Enquirer would have you believe. The updates RFP actually spells this out in the "background" section. One more reason I absolutely hate the daily mail!

Thanks for info and the heads up Shazam. It's good to know what is coming from where and how/why. I think at least for me, the points on principal I brought up concerning a future amnesty/blank green cards are still valid.

Actually... I'm down for that.

But they often publish info that is soon picked up and born out by more mainstream media. If they don't kiss corporate/political ass, I'm surprised they aren't more supported, as much as we bitch about the media.

The conjecture derives from the reason for the draft request. There are over 4 million LEGAL immigrants waiting .... They could just as easily be intended primarily for that purpose.

Because Obama has said himself he plans on offering amnesty by executive order after the elections maybe? I tend to believe him when he is trying to hurt the country.

I've kinda been getting that impression too.

Libertarians aren't allowed to be for sovereignty laws? That's news to me.

Libertarians are supposed to be for the rule of law, so check your definition. libertarians are beginning to look more right leaning because the left is going to crazy town.

Unfortunately, your conditions are considered unfair, racist, old white men kind of thinking. Nothing like this will be required of them.

F you. I'm Mexican you ass

F yourself. I actually was picturing that describing old white democrats.

Well then. I apologize

Well then have a nice day. ;-)

Out of curiosity, when you say you are Mexican, do you mean you are LITERALLY Mexican, or do you mean you are originally from Mexico and a naturalized citizen, or do you mean you have ancestors who immigrated from Mexico?

Great grand parents emigrated. I am of mixed blood. Irish/ Hispanic. Being a conservative, constitutional, libertarian is difficult when you have color. Similar to how Herman Cain feels I imagine.

Breck, why do you say your Mexican and not an American mutt like most of us.

Perk. Sorry. It was a knee jerk reaction to a stupid comment. I'm an American of mixed decent. Like everyone else. I hate when people say they are Mexican too when they are American first. I fly the American flag at my house.

Hey, sweetcheeks, my comment was not stupid. I was serious and it's true.

When you say my comments are racist and old man, I'm not sure why it's racist. Everyone would be impacted by the removal of the minimum wage. As far no welfare. No immigrant should be given anything free to live here. Work or go home.

So nothing I've suggested is racist. Perhaps you're feeling guilty of your racist past?

2Katz, I have to apologize again. I do not think you're racist. I reread your original comment and have concluded that I am wrong about you.

You were saying that "my" comment in California would be considered racist. I see it wouldn't be your opinion. What is your opinion?

Dang, you're one of the most reasonable people I've seen on SOH! I appreciate your thoughts. In my original comment I said "are considered to be..." but I meant that's how most liberals seem to look upon setting any kind of conditions in this issue.

I meant to say that it's unrealistic to expect that any of these expectations will be placed on them, in the current prevailing sociopolitical climate. I personally think your conditions are appropriate.

Thanks. I have a theory that most don't agree with. I believe that the minimum wage is an artificial set point for pay. Without it, most would pay more.

Plus, If you illuminated business tax with a fair tax, business would flock back to the country and competition for workers would drive up wages.

I cometely agree with that.

Lol. I said illuminated! Oops. Spell check fail.

I agree. But no minimum wage and no welfare. Work or go home.

So you agree that borders are absurd, but you still think that the people on the other side of the border should have less rights if they come here?

No, not less rights. Eliminating minimum wage would apply to all.

A world without borders is absurd. The US must enforce it's borders to maintain the freedom that our founders gave us. Without borders we would be reduced to the lowest common denominator...a hopeless corrupt third world shithole.

Lol what a joke. It wouldn't be a line in the sand if we put a fence up. You go be an illegal in Mexico and see how much they give you for free and how much they help you in English.

@skarface So you don't believe in boarders. You realize you live in a republic with defined boarders. Do you have a door to your house? Do you lock it? Why not just have it removed?

A country is not the same as a house. If all you have to argue against me is shoddy metaphors then I have nothing more to say to you.

Shoddy according to you. It's a perfect metaphor. If you believed whole heartedly in no boarders/boundaries, you should have no problem living with no doors. Let the neighbors live there too and maybe their extended families. Sorry, you're in denial.

If you don't know the difference between a border and a door, you have more problems than I'm qualified to address. By the way, spell the word border right you twat.

You are f u c k i n g d I c k wad who deserves to get skull f u c k e d Scarface. You are obviously a huge moron if you argue against borders and then don't realize that his analogy is perfect. You are wrong, but that was easy to see. F U C K off.

@skarface Thanks for the spelling correction, but you still fail to grasp the analogy. You house sits on a property. That property had defined borders that belong to you. People just don't show up and live on your property.

Door, fence, and walls are there as a deterrent to people who would. It's illegal to do so as people who do this are called squatters or home invaders. Our nation has defined borders. We have people living here and our boundaries will be enforced.

He's right. A secure border ensures that only those that we approve are allowed in. If 60,000 children can just walk across, then how many ISIL terrorists came too?

That would end with a bunch of dead rednecks.

Skar...would that include all the military and police who would join the revolution? Who would the totalitarians bring in to do the killing...the UN?

A few pilots is all it takes.

"A few pilots" who don't care about the Constitution. Luckily most pilots do. Why do you hate democracy so much?

Because they are communist nut jobs who don't know history.

To avoid any accusations of racism from the liberals the only color would have to be white. I take that back, they can't be white either because they will claim we only want whites here. They will have to be translucent.

purple with pink polka dots?

Now you are being homophobic. Lol.

noooo.... that would be rainbow ones, I'm scared of ET s

As a giants fan, id say you have tackled the most important issue.

Quit pulling your racism card all the time. If just as many white Canadians were flooding across the border causing as many problems most people, if not more, would still be complaining about the problem and wanting a solution.

They're very strict about Canadians coming across the border and won't let you even visit if they think there's a possibility that you'll work.

So I guess it is not just "brown people" they want to regulate.

Uh no. It's easy to get in if you are brown.

Yeah, Canadians have to decide to give up their socialized healthcare, legal pot, and advanced society to come and live amongst the children. I'd say it is a hard thing for Canadians to do...

Haha. Canada is an "advanced society". Canadians come to the USA and pay full price for life saving surgeries instead of their free "advanced" healthcare system.

Yeah, and nobody ever smuggles Canadian prescription drugs across the border... Which ones a bigger industry??

The earth is overpopulated... It's not something were going to fix with invisible borders, unless we institute a population control policy like china, except we should do like 2 or 3 max per family..

The earth is not overpopulated. There are plenty of resources to go around. If someone is going hungry it is because a corruption or logistics problem.

I won't disagree on the corruption thing, but we are way, waaay overpopulated. And I think the impact we have had on the environment, while in centralized bubbles is testament to that fact...

It may be over populated in Maryland, but here in Nevada, there's plenty of room. And plenty of vacant homes.

I have been through most of Maryland. There is so much undeveloped land in most of it.

Md is like any other place: crowded as hell in some places, empty in others. Nevada.. Who wants to live in the desert?? Christ, Vegas is running out of water, and makes no plans to tackle that crisis... Surprise..

Totally bubble wrap. But imagine a quick drumroll leading up to each one...

And then, when you morons don't have a job anymore, oh wait, you're libs, you only live off of the government dole, never mind.

Hey, I get my free healthcare solely because my notoriously conservative overlords pay poverty level wages, even for skilled labor in a market that pays much much better. Cant get a job at the other places, cuz nobody leaves a salary like that

sounds to me like they want to be prepared...what is to support or oppose?

How is he getting screwed if he's here legally? How's he getting screwed any differently than anyone else?

Because when it's time to renew documents the ISCIS office always "loses" some info and he has to pay up. They lost his green card and blamed him. A year and $1200 in bogus fees later, still no green card.

This has nothing to do with being racist for most people that oppose this. Also, "brown" people aren't the only people coming here.

What @skyrim said.

Yeah but you don't see fox news talking about illegal Asians, do you??

Asian privilege.

JHawk, I haven't really heard of anyone talking about illegal asians. Lol. My point was just that the problem isn't just "brown" people.
Also, I don't watch Fox News... and I don't know what you're getting at. Do you disagree with what I said? :)

breck, I don't know what asian privilege you're talking about.

I'm saying fix news is really the only 'news source' that talks about immigration as a 'crisis' and it's always about brown people. You don't hear many other news outlets covering immigration in regards other than the debate

And it's in debate of immigration of brown people. Nobody covers immigration of non brown people because it doesn't bother the conservatives... It's just convenient

If it weren't a matter of people being racist, you'd see the opponents talking a great deal more about non brown immigrants, but it's not within their power to treat immigrants equally (heyyo)..

@skrym the liberals are always talking about white privilege. If that's true, what about Asian privilege? They make more than whites! The left never complains about them.

Maybe because they're minorities. Maybe the left is happy to see a minority thriving.. Guess that never crossed your mind..

I don't think it's ever crossed their mind.

Do you really think Obama's the type of guy that would even consider thinking over these details?

I don't think he cares about laws.

I know. Just thought I'd point out the obvious.

I'm not saying I agree, but neither side is willing to compromise.

@gamerguy: watch him. Not 1st time he's violated law & usurped power... & no one has done anything to stop him. Unless/until someone does, he can apparently do anything he likes.

mobile.nytimes.com/2012/09/08/opinion/a-court-denounces-executive-fiat.html?_r=0

Yes

I'm just waiting for the day the onion is used as a source site on one of these polls..

youtu.be/5eBT6OSr1TI

To give people amnesty for being here illegally is like a spit in the face of those people who worked so hard to come to this country legally and those who became citizens.

Yes. Especially since that's the law & we don't *have* a King. Supposed to have a President subject to the other branches of Government. Not that it appears to matter...

mobile.nytimes.com/2012/09/08/opinion/a-court-denounces-executive-fiat.html?_r=0

Or what? you gonna do something?

I'd support him if he did. This ain't right. He shouldn't be able to just do this.

Its not me he should worry about. Its all of us he should be concerned about. Any moron knows we dont want amnesty for these people. Obama will have a fire storm on his hands is he issues his stupid arbitrary green cards. YOU gonna do something?

P.S. They should at least find out how to speak English -_-

I speak English. So does my aunt. Many of us that spent years and a lot of money becoming a citizen the correct way, now it feels kind of wasted. Especially my aunt, who just became a citizen and worked her ass off to do so.

Skyrim it wasn't a waste. I and any true american are glad to have you.

My intention isn't to offend you or make you feel 'wasted', but there is some people that come here and never bother to learn the language. Glad you and your family did.

Maybe learning the language wasn't a top priority.

TheDoN, thank you. You know, people talk about how much they hate it here, or how messed up America is (and some of that might be true)... but goodness. I wouldn't have anything I have today if I stayed where I was at.

G00D, I know. You didn't offend me. :) I actually came here by myself. My aunt just happens to be an immigrant as well, though she wasn't able to become a citizen until recently (she's almost 60).
English wasn't my first language, but it's all I

speak now, so it feels so natural.