Show of HandsShow of Hands

Mattwall1 June 12th, 2014 12:37am

According to CNN, since the Newtown school shooting, 74 school shootings have occurred, including 15 similar to the recent one in Oregon. While no one denies that completely preventing any type of crime is impossible, do we have a problem in the US?

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crunch
06/13/14 9:46 pm

The problem is there but the proble is not just find it's much dealer than that.... It has to do with our media, our perception of what we should be in life and what success is and our high leeks of inequality

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sensible SF Bay Area
06/13/14 7:56 pm

We have many problems...among which are idiots who believe committing such a terrible act will make them famous, and are willing to die for that fame.

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crunch
06/19/14 1:04 am

But it does make them famous..... Ive heard people on the right wing argue if we cover it less it will happen less

r3dhead
06/13/14 6:45 pm

This school shooting bandwagon needs to end, just because one psycho goes to a school it shouldn't give psychos the same idea for them to do the same thing

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
06/13/14 4:24 pm

Yes. Over-coverage of these incidents. Naming perps & being too interested in *their* lives rather than those who were victimized. Failure to DX & effectively treat &/or commit mentally/emotionally unstable until they are stable & safe in society.

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Ivyra Earth
06/13/14 2:30 pm

You don't hear about this sort of thing happening anywhere else

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
06/13/14 4:26 pm

Becuz it doesn't happen or becuz these events don't become media obsessions?

Ivyra Earth
06/13/14 7:13 pm

Because it doesn't happen

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
06/13/14 8:32 pm

So you're saying only USA has irrational violence?

comppete Las Vegas
06/13/14 2:08 pm

Yes, but not with guns. We have a real problem with dealing with mental illness and stupid, irresponsible people.

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DavesNotHere where am I
06/13/14 3:31 pm

But why is America having this problem? Other countries have stupid people, immature people, mentally Ill people, but they're not as violent as us. What are we doing wrong?

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
06/13/14 4:29 pm

I guess I challenge that these sorts of things *don't* happen elsewhere. They don't become obsessions, perhaps, or violence is tolerated differently perhaps. But "these types things" happen *lots* of places. We simply don't equate them.

comppete Las Vegas
06/13/14 4:53 pm

Gun confiscation has not diminished violence in other countries. The fact is, violent assaults against a person in Britain is higher than the same crimes against a person in the US. Mexico and Estonia are the most violent countries in the world.

comppete Las Vegas
06/13/14 4:58 pm

I don't know the answer to your question Dave. If I did, I would gladly share it. We are doing something wrong by not doing the right things. But, all the gun control you can think of will not stop the mindless killing here or anywhere else.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
06/13/14 5:22 pm

Some of the *horrifying* violence in other places - with & without guns - make USA look like "happiest place on Earth."

DavesNotHere where am I
06/13/14 6:36 pm

Comppete, it's sad that the violence has become a political issue and that the root of the problems will never be discussed or dealt with. We're not progressive at all, are we?

comppete Las Vegas
06/13/14 8:31 pm

Not as long as we have only the two "Establishment" political parties.

Agonist Iowa
06/13/14 2:02 pm

The proliferation of guns is the problem.

Iamamerican California
06/13/14 9:10 am

That number has been debunked. It's a lot lower.

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
06/13/14 4:33 pm

Thanks for the link!

mac Oregon
06/13/14 8:32 am

We have a cultural problem- it is not the tool if violence, but the violence as a tool. Our children and society need something....proper interaction with humans? Reality training? The issue is complex and I struggle with answers...

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corino Utah
06/13/14 6:33 am

CNN was repeating claims on another report which they have since reexamined and declared to be bullshit. The actual number is closer to 7.

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WhoAreYou Up In The Trees
06/13/14 5:51 am

His name is Obama.

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DavesNotHere where am I
06/13/14 3:32 pm

Obama is the reason for the school shootings? Are you insane too?

WhoAreYou Up In The Trees
06/13/14 3:34 pm

Have they not greatly increased in number during his presidency?

tsd715 New York City
06/13/14 5:01 am

It's the American culture! We have been tought to think that the founding fathers were some gun totin' rednecks that killed the tyrant snobby British in the Revolution.

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drewseph17 San Francisco
06/13/14 1:50 am

how could anyone think this is NOT a problem?!

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professorwho Madness and Genius
06/12/14 10:09 pm

We have the ability to bear arms but the problem is that crazy assholes have that right too.

timeout Boston Strong
06/12/14 6:03 am

Gun violence my be down but mass shooting are up. Maybe stricter background checks won't help, but why not try.

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grizzy Kansas
06/12/14 9:35 pm

I have asked so many loud gun activists for a reason for not requiring stricter background checks, an not one of them was able to provide me with a decent reason.

ScrewU Gone
06/13/14 7:23 am

Mass shootings are NOT up. The question about "tighter" background checks has been answered ad nauseum. What we have is as tight as checks can get. Every retail purchase, criminal and mental background.

GlockMan1 Alabama
06/12/14 4:41 am

It's called a SIN problem which you inherited from your parents.

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Mattwall1
06/12/14 5:57 am

Forgive me, but while I'll be the first to admit this is a multi faceted issue, I daresay sin, and I'm presuming original sin to boot by the second party of your statement, really aren't the issue here

GlockMan1 Alabama
06/12/14 7:40 pm

SIN infects every aspect of our life here on earth. Anger, greed, selfishness, sexual immorality, Pride, fear, anxiety, depression....there are a lot if underlying reasons for all the shootings but it all comes back to the SIN that consumes us.

steelcity Pittsburgh
06/12/14 3:15 am

I don't think it's a gun issue. I think these kids are hopeless, depressed, going trough puberty. They can't get in a fight to get their aggression out and parents can often be absent.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/12/14 12:21 am

We have a problem with morality. If there are no moral absolutes, then no one has any call to say these massacres are immoral and therefore wrong. This is why it's important to bring back moral teachings and Christianity to our schools.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/12/14 12:21 am

At the state and local level, of course.

mim formerly 97123
06/12/14 12:48 am

Because Christianity has a corner on the morality market, I guess… and you should push your brand or religion on everyone else, I suppose. #facepalm

GlockMan1 Alabama
06/12/14 4:45 am

97123....Christians received a "mandate" from Christ. It can be found in Mark 16:15 and tells us we should go into ALL THE WORLD and spread the Gospel which offends the UNRIGHTEOUS.

Mattwall1
06/12/14 5:59 am

Pinky-I will have to say I disagree with brining religion into schools, but we've had that debate before many a time.

Glock-I will say that while I respect anyone's right to believe in the Bible, I daresay I don't really think the Bible is actual

Mattwall1
06/12/14 6:01 am

Evidence.

bMyComrade Stumptown
06/11/14 8:31 pm

I think there are issues linked to how easy it is for unauthorized people to get into schools, and also how easy it is for students to have weapons in school. But I honestly don't know what could be done about either.

bMyComrade Stumptown
06/11/14 8:32 pm

Part of what is scariest to me about what happened here in Portland is that they found another unrelated kid also carrying a gun at that school. How much is that happening all over??

OhTheIrony Learning from you
06/11/14 7:56 pm

The real problem is that we aren't effectively regulating the media.

Gun violence has actually decreased over the years.

www.ibtimes.com/gun-violence-down-49-1993-peak-despite-public-perception-high-crime-1243671

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OhTheIrony Learning from you
06/11/14 7:59 pm

People are interested/horrified when they hear about mass shootings. The media disproportionately covers mass shootings because they are guaranteed to sell well to their viewers.

This gives potential shooters the idea that if they shoot people...

OhTheIrony Learning from you
06/11/14 8:01 pm

... their voice will be heard. People will give attention to their cause, even if it is negative attention.

In this way, the extensive media coverage of mass shootings INCENTIVIZES the mass shootings.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
06/11/14 8:03 pm

If we want to reduce mass shootings(which is increasing even though gun violence is down), we need to stop covering mass shootings on a national scale.

Limit the exposure to just the local, affected area so that the city is made aware of their...

OhTheIrony Learning from you
06/11/14 8:04 pm

... tragedy. Don't give the murderer what he wants by releasing his name to the media so that everyone and their grandfather knows his name. That's what the killer wants--to be remembered for his crimes.

This is the only solution.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
06/11/14 8:07 pm

As individuals, we should do our part as well.

Stop consuming media that covers mass shootings!

See an article on CNN about a school shooting? Don't click on it! Change the channel AWAY from MSNBC if they start covering it. We need to do our part

kscott516 Masks fail
06/11/14 8:23 pm

Completely agree with that

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/12/14 12:25 am

I don't agree with government regulating the media's choice of reporting.
But I would support erasing any public government records of the murderer's existence.
I also believe that the media and we as consumers should refuse to glorify the murderer.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/12/14 12:26 am

If every would be murderer knew that they would be officially erased, and demonized in death, rather than glorified, it would diminish the appeal for those simply looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

kscott516 Masks fail
06/12/14 3:50 am

Irony didn't say the govt should prevent the media from covering it. I would not be in favor of that. I do agree that the coverage and sensationalizing of these school shootings may incentivize someone who is disturbed enough to murder to want to do

kscott516 Masks fail
06/12/14 3:50 am

it the same way for the notoriety.

DavesNotHere where am I
06/11/14 7:04 pm

Scotland, 1999- madman enters a school and shoots & kills a classroom full of small children. In the next few days the laws are changed by both political parties there. Working in unison. They haven't had a shooting since. People come first in Sctlnd

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DavesNotHere where am I
06/11/14 6:59 pm

America is stupid.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/12/14 12:26 am

What an ignorant thing to say.

jvberg Winter has Come
06/11/14 6:42 pm

1 school shooting is too many school shootings

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kermie gaytopia
06/11/14 6:20 pm

Yeah I immediately thought of this too. Sad that it's actually true.

Mattwall1
06/11/14 6:43 pm

The onion?

Mattwall1
06/11/14 6:45 pm

I know what the onion is. I'm wondering why you're citing it

kermie gaytopia
06/11/14 6:47 pm

I imagine because it's funny and also true.

146787456777 .......
06/11/14 5:49 pm

yes I think that the US has an issue with violence in schools. Its real can't be denied. We need to figure out why its happening and take measures to stop it. Its an emotionally charged issue and people become defensive, public outcry increases

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146787456777 .......
06/11/14 5:50 pm

we chase our tails, but nothing ever seems to get done.

kermie gaytopia
06/11/14 6:20 pm

We have an issue with violence period. Everywhere.

146787456777 .......
06/11/14 6:25 pm

I agree, but I figured I'd narrow my statement to only include schools as matt's question pertained in hopes--to put it bluntly--to avoid have the "gun grabbing liberal" debate. not that it would stop it. as I said defensiveness runs rampant

kermie gaytopia
06/11/14 6:32 pm

Yes, I agree. We don't seem to be able to have sensible conversations about it :/

146787456777 .......
06/11/14 6:36 pm

its what bugs me the most about it. the whole defeatist attitude. "Well since its a complicated issue, that DEFINITELY has NOTHING to do whatsoever with guns, let's just accept it because there's nothing we can do amiright???" /facepalm

BusinessJustin Tamriel
06/11/14 5:47 pm

There will always be crazies. There's little that can be done to completely eradicate this very sad issue.

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Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:50 pm

I agree there will always be crazy. To say all shootings are by mentally ill people though (I'm not sure if you are but I'm covering that anyway) isn't completely accurate and honestly avoids any other situation. I do think we're limited in ability

Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:51 pm

To do anything from how our society is, what practically works, and what can constitutionally be done (I'll admit I do think some gun control is constitutional, but even if everyone agreed there, which we all know isn't the case, society wouldn't

BusinessJustin Tamriel
06/11/14 5:55 pm

Haha, I'm not saying that all shootings are committed by mentally-ill individuals, but I am saying that you do have to be a little bit crazy to want to shoot kids. A little gun control isn't a bad thing, I'll agree.

Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:59 pm

You've just inspired a question. Thanks

kermie gaytopia
06/11/14 6:21 pm

There are crazies everywhere but no other nation has anything like this.

BusinessJustin Tamriel
06/12/14 8:12 am

No other nation? Every other nation does. We're just so much more aware of things that occur here. Recall Anders Breivik?

BusinessJustin Tamriel
06/12/14 8:12 am

Haha, oh dear Matt. I'm scared to look for it now...

Mattwall1
06/12/14 8:17 am

It isn't up yet justin. It will be later today

BusinessJustin Tamriel
06/12/14 9:55 am

Oh the anticipation! Haha, be nice. We're friends.......

kermie gaytopia
06/12/14 9:57 am

I'm obviously talking about the epidemic of mass shootings. They may happen occasionally here and there in other countries, but not nearly as often.

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 5:45 pm

Our main issue is that our schools are completely defenseless. They are an ideal target for sociopaths

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KatG Liberal in Ohio
06/11/14 5:47 pm

They were defenseless 20+ years ago when I was in school, too, and we didn't have this problem.

Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:49 pm

While I can see why school security is a concern, even a major one, is effectively turning schools into an armed facility (which is what if we start in that direction it could take/become) a healthy environment for students to go to school in?

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 5:51 pm

Kat: I understand that but we live in a different world than we did twenty years ago. 20 years ago sociopaths couldn't study previous school shootings and get fame and inspiration the way they do now. The world is changing and we have to adapt

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 5:53 pm

Matt, It's certainly not ideal but some security is necessary. We can still have a quality learning environment and a secure perimeter. It doesn't have to be a large security presence, perhaps just an police officer who is stationed at the school or

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 5:54 pm

a firearm kept safe and secure inside the school by a trained and mentally fit teacher.

Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:56 pm

Some security I agree. I know my school and other schools have a police officer already. I'm not sure if that's common nationwide or not. From what I can tell though, it seems like every school shooting brings calls to openly arm teachers. Forgive me

Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:57 pm

For saying this, but I'm not sure if having openly armed teachers solved the problem. Honestly, it could backfire (no pun intended)

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:02 pm

skinner, re what you said to Kat: have you seen evidence that any of these shooters have actually studied past shooters? it seems like something that would have been fairly well covered if that were the case. it seems unlikely that that is a cause

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:03 pm

our a major cause of such a sharp increase.

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:06 pm

skinner, re what you said to Matt: agree with Matt that some security would be beneficial, but I got one have a hard time seeing how adding weapons, of most kinds, actually increases security. I find it strange that do many people would rather add

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:08 pm

weapons than to deal with our even address the problems that are causing this increase. wouldn't dealing with the causes of the violence not only deal with the problem but also remove a need for more funds, in a tight econ, to increase security?

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 6:09 pm

Well Which many shooters have referred to previous school shootings like Columbine as inspiration for their morbid acts

murderpedia.org/male.H/images/harris-eric/the-columbine-legacy.pdf

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 6:11 pm

Well Which it's pretty simple actually. When a mentally unstable person begins to shoot random people in a school we don't really understand their motive usually, but one thing we can infer is that this is a victory for them and that they like being

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 6:12 pm

unopposed. If confronted by a trained and mentally fit faculty member may be all it takes to tip the shooter over the edge. If a trained faculty member can defend his students from a shooter by killing or wounding the shooter he or she should should

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 6:12 pm

be able to do so

kermie gaytopia
06/11/14 6:23 pm

A trained shooter at the Vegas Wal-mart just got killed trying to intervene. Many of these mass shooting have had trained people with guns in the vicinity and they still happen. And we've seen over and over when trained cops panic, they hit

kermie gaytopia
06/11/14 6:24 pm

bystanders. The notion that more people with guns would make things safer has to be the most utterly ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. Real life shows this not to be true.

skinner Jersey City
06/11/14 6:30 pm

I'm not asserting that we will never have shootings again or that having firearms present in a shooting is impervious to failure but it certainly has the potential to mitigate if not prevent these tragedies.

MrEdwin Mystery
06/11/14 6:32 pm

And trained people with guns have also prevented shootings, just because the other side has a weapon doesn't mean he'll succeed.

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:38 pm

skinner, thanks for the link, just read through it. bear with me. I agree with the papers assertion that combine was a "watershed" moment but not as you said that it nec increased the likelihood of school shootings. it inspired those that followed

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:41 pm

mostly in their methodology and a sense of credibility. I would say, and the paper's conclusion seems to indicate this as well, the insatiable media coverage of this and subsequent shootings had more of an effect on future shootings. yes columbine is

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:43 pm

the one that is referenced and even imitated but it is noted that it's bec it was the first - the watershed moment. people looked up to their methodology, the #s of people killed, BUT people were still killing for the same reasons as before columbine

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:44 pm

bullying, feeling disenfranchised, feeling rejected socially and romantically, being allocated to a lower class of status - all the same motivations to kill before. columbine showed people it could be a political statement along with a personal one.

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:47 pm

do while I agree columbine showed how using one's anger could accomplish two things at once, political stmnt & vendetta, I found little in there that proves that that shooting actually increased the number of shootings, but rather have kids another

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:49 pm

plan of action. those kids seemed to be willing to kill regardless, columbine simply provided them with a possible outline rather than increase it's quantity.

as to the assertion that the people committing these comes are crazy and therefore beyond

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:51 pm

find anything legislatively bec those that wasn't too kill will find a way to kill - to a certain extent sure. however, making the environment one that makes it increasingly easier to obtain weapons hours against sense to me.

uncovering the reasons

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:53 pm

why this violence is becoming more common, why teens (and even adults at this point) feel like this is *the* way to deal w/whatever wrongs they feel have been perpetrated against them and then attempting to stop the violence before it starts in the

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:55 pm

first place seems a more productive and safer way the deal with the problem than deciding to arm an institution that is meant to focus on learning rather than defense. what are we coming to that we don't deal with the problems, that we'd rather wait

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:56 pm

for the problems to come walking up so we can shoot them? because that's what arming our schools says - it says we cannot help those who ares having difficulties, that feel left behind, that are being bullied AND instead of trying we will wait for

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:59 pm

them to arrived and deal with a societal problem by shooting them before they shoot "us".

yes some are batshit crazy, but many aren't. they are angry, alone and feel like no one sees them. why can't we try to see them first instead of shooting 1st?

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 6:59 pm

and this isn't too say we will be able to stop all, but how can we not even try to help any?

Whichendisup uniquely unoriginal
06/11/14 7:00 pm

OMG, just realized how much text that was - sorry!

Liberty 4,032,064
06/11/14 5:41 pm

Yes:
Medication as a substitute for discipline and/or actual help.
Guaranteed targets by way of prohibition on the means of defense.

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Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:44 pm

While there are people that are medicated because they're parents just don't care or other similar reasons, there are many more that actually have a valid reason for medication and frankly would be worse off without it

Liberty 4,032,064
06/11/14 5:56 pm

I agree, but too often they get proscribed medication and then people act like that's the only treatment necessary. These psychotropic drugs without the proper accompanying psychiatric therapy often make matters much worse.

Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:58 pm

That's true. To be fair, not every shooting is committed by someone that's mentally ill.

Liberty 4,032,064
06/11/14 5:58 pm

Even with therapy, the drugs still often make thugs worse.
Doctors are over-eager to to prescribe them and many parents are over-eager to accept them.

Liberty 4,032,064
06/11/14 5:59 pm

I don't know exact numbers offhand, but I know that close to 100% of *mass* shooting are committed by young males on psychotropic drugs.

Mattwall1
06/11/14 6:01 pm

I'll admit I'm not sure where that stats came though I'd like to see a source. That being said non mass shootings shouldn't be ignored

Liberty 4,032,064
06/11/14 6:20 pm

I agree completely that they shouldn't be ignored, but "crimes of passion" are very individualistic and can pretty much only be handled at the personal level.

firefly5 the verse
06/11/14 5:40 pm

I like how you started with "according to CNN," and then segued into real life.

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Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:43 pm

It's a cnn article. What was I supposed to do? Say, "according to Fox News"? :)

firefly5 the verse
06/11/14 5:44 pm

I do believe that word is spelled "Faux," Matt.

Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:45 pm

I try to keep a fair and balanced comment section. I can't speak if certain networks, on the left or the right, do the same

Mattwall1
06/11/14 5:39 pm

Note: please no snarky responses about other issues (ex. "Yes, we have a spending problem). Please stick to the topic at hand, or related topics. Not completely unrelated ones.

Merci Beaucoup,
Mattwall1

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redsox95 New England
06/11/14 5:38 pm

Parenting is going downhill.

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kermie gaytopia
06/11/14 6:25 pm

Only in the US?