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Shazam June 10th, 2014 7:02pm

It is illegal to permit a juvenile to have access to a handgun and/or ammo for a handgun. If a kid uses his/her parents' handgun in a school shooting, should the parents be held criminally liable if they did not secure the weapon or ammo?

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davidwhite1 Building it Bigger
06/11/14 4:18 pm

My guns are locked up, and the older kids know the code.
If I am not there to defend them, I want them to have quick access to defend themselves.

Now if the were struggling mentally, I would change the code to protect them from themselves.

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Rosebud Ohio
06/11/14 10:12 pm

I told my husband wheb I was pregnant with our last daughter, if I got ppd again to change our safesjust in case.
I certainly agree with your statement. It's never something to mess with.

comppete Las Vegas
06/11/14 3:54 pm

Absolutely.
Am I correct this time?

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kjs Minnesota
06/11/14 1:36 pm

Parents should always be gun responsible people. Put the weapons in a gun cabinet with a lock that only parents know.

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Rosebud Ohio
06/11/14 10:11 pm

The safe we use most is a fingerprint. Not fool proof, but it's pretty effective. Especially for young children.

ScrewU Gone
06/11/14 12:40 pm

Already a criminal charge in VA.

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/11/14 1:26 pm

3GUN - what is the charge? Penalty?

ScrewU Gone
06/11/14 2:42 pm

§ 18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to recklessly leave a loaded, unsecured firearm in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of any child under the age of fourteen. Any person

ScrewU Gone
06/11/14 2:43 pm

violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor.

B. It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to authorize a child under the age of twelve to use a firearm except when the child is under the supervision of

ScrewU Gone
06/11/14 2:44 pm

an adult. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. For purposes of this subsection, "adult" shall mean a parent, guardian, person standing in loco parentis to the child or a person twenty-one years or over who

ScrewU Gone
06/11/14 2:45 pm

has the permission of the parent, guardian, or person standing in loco parentis to supervise the child in the use of a firearm.

satanhimself
06/11/14 11:17 am

If they knew about it, yes. Not to blame for the shooting, but that is ignoring the safety of the child and others.

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hrankta
06/11/14 10:59 am

I am just about as pro-gun rights as they come, but you should ALWAYS have your guns secured!

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dxstap Bloomington, Indiana
06/11/14 10:57 am

Said no only because I'm struggling with if it should be a criminal issue or just a civil matter.
Arguments both ways. Leaning to civil because the opportunity for compensation would likely be better.

Rob Be Safe Be Smart
06/11/14 8:19 am

Why am I not surprised that single w/kids is the lowest percentage of yes.

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calicosolo Wisconsin
06/11/14 6:45 am

No some parents have guns and ammo locked away and all a kid has to do is try to steal parents keys to unlock it all. Kids aren't stupid and this has happened

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Bolide
06/11/14 9:38 am

The question states "if they did not secure the weapon or ammo." If it was secured, then they would not be liable.

singkitty In the cloud
06/11/14 5:08 am

Yes. If you own a gun and live with children all of it should be locked up. It's common sense/safety. If you can't do that you don't deserve the right to have a gun. IMO

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Injectable Trump Killed Babbitt
06/10/14 5:05 pm

Yes. Not for the deaths but for negligence.

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lightsabr2 The Big Sky
06/11/14 8:26 am

Great compromise answer.

Rosebud Ohio
06/10/14 4:24 pm

If they did not secure it, yes. If the kid broke in to the safe or location the gun and or ammo were kept, no.

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Rosebud Ohio
06/10/14 4:27 pm

Either way, they're responsible only for the possession and not the crimes committed with the weapon.

Rocker saved by grace
06/10/14 2:17 pm

Depends on the age of the shooter.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
06/10/14 2:04 pm

Yes, but we won't. Just last year, cop leaves his loaded handgun and kids unattended in his minivan, one of his kids shoots one of his other kids. Is criminally irresponsible cop dad still in jail? No. Not even for a day.

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Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 2:27 pm

That madness. Of course he should have been held responsible!

Zimmeress Make Me Laugh
06/10/14 11:54 pm

Jesus. This is just crazy upon crazy.

cowboy Doors of Perception
06/10/14 12:38 pm

As long as they charge the quack therapist that has drugged the poor kid for years.

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Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 1:09 pm

COW - this really isn't about the kid right? It's about whether the parent and gun owner is a responsible gun owner. Do you see this differently somehow?

kindocologist Beer is my friend
06/10/14 1:42 pm

Prob not Shaz.
Deeply runs the hatred in this one.
*Yoda circa 2020*

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 2:04 pm

KINDER - it's all that diesel fuel, Dinty Moore stew, and time spent with lot lizards at those PILOTs in the middle of nowhere. Rots the brain di di mau.....

cowboy Doors of Perception
06/11/14 9:36 am

How can a parent be responsible when they allow quacks to drug their children?

cowboy Doors of Perception
06/11/14 9:37 am

All these mass shooters have one thing in common. Drugs. I wonder why that isn't looked into more by so-called journalists...

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/11/14 1:25 pm

COW - if the parent does not lock his/her gun and ammunition away in such a manner that their kids cannot gain easy access, they are responsible. They are the gun/ammo owner and ultimately the responsible party. Should be easy to grasp?

cowboy Doors of Perception
06/11/14 1:31 pm

I guess you want to ignore the real issue also.

usernamehere Raise a little hell
06/10/14 12:35 pm

Not for the shooting itself. For leaving it unlocked (if provable), yes.

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Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 1:12 pm

USE - why would they not be responsible for the shooting? I'm can see arguments for either perspective. I'd be interested in yours!

usernamehere Raise a little hell
06/10/14 1:17 pm

They didn't shoot the kids, did they? Nor did they tell the kid to do so.

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 1:26 pm

No, but if they have a swimming pool that isn't secured and a kid drowns in it, they are criminally liable right?

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 1:27 pm

Doesn't a lack of responsibility to properly maintain an object (dog/gun/swimming pool/explosives/etc) that can cause death reside with the owner of that object?

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 1:27 pm

Sorry - edited that wrong. Doesn't the responsibility to properly maintain an object (dog/gun/explosives) that can cause death reside with the owner of that object?

usernamehere Raise a little hell
06/10/14 2:32 pm

The pool is on their property. It's supposed to be watched. It's theirs.
If someone steals a gun and commits a crime with it, is it still their fault? No. Once something is out of their hands, it's not their fault anymore.

Maj Worth Economist
06/10/14 2:33 pm

On the other hand, what if the kid just worked particularly hard to get the gun despite precautions? It's one thing if the kids gets it because the gun's been left out. But if the kid uses your keys, unlocks the safe, and takes it... That's the same?

droo Santa Barbara
06/10/14 2:44 pm

If they leave their pool unlocked and their son drowns they are held for negligence, not drowning their son. Similarly, if they leave their gun out and their son shoots someone, they should be charged for negligence, not the shooting. @Shazam

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 3:08 pm

MAJ - if the parent had taken reasonable precautions, and the child foiled those precautions, no charges should be filed.

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 3:10 pm

DROO - i'd say that is reasonable. Violation of federal gun law and criminal negligence. Fair, but not overboard like a manslaughter, murder, etc. charge.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
06/10/14 12:31 pm

How do you prove it wasn't locked up beyond a reasonable doubt?

Also, going down the road of charging others for the crimes if another is very dangerous. I don't like that slippery slope. Americans love the "well we already do X so Y must be ok!"

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Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 12:44 pm

REB - locked up, was the handgun and ammo in a gun safe or similarly designed container?
Yes=golden; No=criminally liable.

Granting access is not the crime of the juvenile shooter, it's the crime of the gun owner.

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 1:10 pm

REB - X and Y, can you be more specific?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
06/10/14 1:56 pm

For instance say what you say happens. Now do I have to lock up my car keys? What if someone takes my car and gets drunk, who gets charged with DUI? It's a slippery slope and I'm not comfortable with it.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
06/10/14 1:57 pm

I'm just not ok with charging someone for the crime of another in any way. It's too dangerous. Besides, those careless enough to not lock up their weapons DONT care about more laws. In many places it's ALREADY illegal to leave a firearm where a kid

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
06/10/14 1:58 pm

has access so I don't see what you think more laws will do.

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 2:01 pm

REB - that's the thing - also for the car example - this isn't a new law. It is currently illegal under fed statute to provide access to a handgun to a minor. I'm not suggesting a new law. Just enforcing the existing one. Hope that makes sense?

droo Santa Barbara
06/10/14 2:49 pm

Your question asked "should they be charged?" not "will they, under our current justice system and statutes, be charged?"

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
06/10/14 3:22 pm

The burden of proof is too difficult. Also it won't change anything and will just ruin another family.

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 4:33 pm

Not hard at all. Broken safe or lock? Good enough. The second argument could be equally applied to the drunk driver who slams into a bunch of kids right?

droo Santa Barbara
06/10/14 4:56 pm

Unless they steal the key to the lock....

There are way too many variables here.

droo Santa Barbara
06/10/14 4:57 pm

Should the parents of the kid who grabs their pills which they left in the cupboard and puts them into his little siblings drink and kill him/her also be charged? I mean, it was their fault he committed it, right? If that same kid grabs a knife they

droo Santa Barbara
06/10/14 4:59 pm

left in the kitchen and stabs some kid at his school, should the parents be charged? If a kid finds his parents car keys and crashes into a group of people after a party he snuck out for, should the parents also be charged?

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 6:07 pm

DROO - pills yes, the rest no. Like guns, there are federal laws requiring safeguarding of Rx meds. The rest do not have laws pertaining to them.

droo Santa Barbara
06/10/14 6:17 pm

again, your question is about *should*, not *what is*. If you honestly believe every law is the right thing, I don't know what to say, but your question isn't asking what is a law, but rather should something be a law.

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 7:09 pm

DROO - it isn't about whether a law should be - it already exists - the Q is about how it should be enforced. As far as all laws go - no, of course not. This law though, absolutely. Kids should not be given unfettered access to handguns.

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 7:10 pm

If you don't get that one, I guess I am the one who doesn't know what else to say.

droo Santa Barbara
06/10/14 10:14 pm

You didn't read anything I said. Like, at all. What's even the point of going on here?

Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 11:03 pm

DROO - sorry.
Seriously.
What did i miss?

EnderWiggin So disillusioned...
06/10/14 12:25 pm

Whut?! Why blame the parents for rearing an unhinged child and giving them access to a means of destruction?

Sorry. That the word "why" out of that statement.

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Shazam Scaramouche, OH
06/10/14 1:28 pm

KINDER - are you SURE you're from Oklahoma?!?!???!?

kindocologist Beer is my friend
06/10/14 1:33 pm

For the love of God no!!! From Texas. Can't wait to unass this damn place.

blitz6799 Chicagoland
06/11/14 7:24 pm

I am so using 'unass' as a verb from now on!!