Time to let God back into schools yet?
February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men
walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened
fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir
was replaced by frightened screams.
Time to allow God back in church?
March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe
Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church,
and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank.
July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire
in a church during a youth performance, killing two people
and injuring seven.
Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five
wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary
school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado
Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a
May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police
and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a
Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one
Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational
Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the
pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.
May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of
Jesus Christ Church
Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary
Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who
reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend,
later killed himself.
April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old
airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once
worked as a security guard.
March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of
God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on
the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before
taking his own life.
July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers
Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff
Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer
after charging the officer, following violent behavior.
Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at
the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine
Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME
Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the
church while preparations are being made for service and
shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.
June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine
monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot
four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two,
before killing himself.
March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace
Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental
patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a
parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.
What's your point?
May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak
Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford
stood up in the middle of a revival service and began
shooting at his estranged wife.
Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist
Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead
seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by
Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before
April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family
History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70,
with a history of mental illness, entered the library,
killed two people and wounded four others before he was
gunned down by police
@sdbrev210, that it doesn't matter of God is "allowed" in schools or not.
@kudos you rock :)
Obviously those people needed some Jesus in their lives
It's strange that so many people would rather have violence in schools than prayer.
Who exactly is saying that?
Rocker, no one is saying that. This isn't an either/or scenario. Adding prayer to school isn't going to magically make the school shootings go away. It is naive to think so.
That's a stupid assumption.
How does prayer stop violence?
Silly rocker. All the praying in the world doesn't stop nutcases with guns.
It's pretty telling though that you'd rather pray than actually do something useful like, you know, enact more stringent gun control measures. But no. Keep "praying".
"I won't do anything productive about keeping this device used to kill multiple people with relative ease out of the hands of nutcases, I'll just hope and wish really hard while advocating for even less stringent controls on these killing devices..."
Miss: I agree that pray won't stop shootings, but I disagree that gun control is the way to stop it either. Most these shootings involve the mentally ill. We take better care of our mentally ill, and I believe we might start to see less shootings.
I disagree with your assertion as well.
I just heard on the news that the Oregon school short was a devout Mormon. I assume he prayed.
Post a poll about god? And the haters come to life....(•_•)
They always have. Tolerance in action.
I personally don't hate god, I just hate bringing religion into public schools. Sorry if it seemed like I hated god or something not actually related to the question. :)
Hating on Rocker
Pumpkin, what are you afraid of?
Yes, when you insinuate that God allows children to be murdered because we exercise our God given free Will people are going to get upset.
I'm not afraid of anything...? I'm not sure I understand your question. I just think that god belongs in church and in hearts, I guess. I just don't think god should be in public schools.
If he lives in your heart, he is with you always, in public and in private places. How then can you/anyone forbid him in public places? What harm comes then from teaching about faith, love, hope, forgiveness, provision, care and healing from God?
Because not everyone wants to believe in god or worship god in the same way you do. If he truly lives in your heart, you don't need to have god established in any public setting.
As Americans, we have to right to separation of church and state. Why do you/anyone have the right to take that away?
No one's trying to take anything away. Your one-sided view of the first amendment should not trump the free practice of religion and our individual faith ESPECIALLY in public places.
You can personally worship wherever and however you want, do your thing. I'm not gonna stop you from exercising your rights. What you do not have the right to do is establish religion in public schools. I'm sorry if you don't like others' rights.
It's not even an honest question. These people aren't advocating for Islam to be taught in schools, just Christianity.
there's no talk of Hinduism or Buddhism or Zoroastrianism....basically, it'd be more accurate to say "can't we just invite Jesus into the classroom again?"
All other religions are taught in depth. To my recollection, I was not taught as much about Christianity in school.
my recollection is different.
You were taught about Christianity in school?
of course. It was presented in a way where it wasn't favored over the other religions either, which I think is responsible and a good practice.
Good for your school district.
unless your aim is to proselytize to impressionable children, what's the point of discussing god and more specifically the Christian interpretation in a school setting?
Funny, never thought about it before. Never learned about Christianity in school. Only Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, and Zoroastrianism.
I never learned about any religion in school. And that's how I like it
I learned nothing in school about any other religion, though when it came to evolution, their response was always, "We'll just skip that chapter." Pretty obvious what my teachers were getting across....
Lol a few of my teachers are hardcore evolutionists.
You mean your teachers were hardcore into scientifically proven facts..?
Pumpkin: was that pointed at me or cheese, cause my response is different based on that? Ha
Sorry, it was directed towards cheese.
I should have specified
Haha it's all good. I would have figured cheese, if their wasn't people out their that think evolution is non-science.
Rocker may I ask what school district you attended that didn't teach Christianity in such a way?
Separation of church & state. Not everyone is Christian.
Shootings in school, or anywhere else, has nothing to do with religion. Keep religion out of public schools.
What kind of asshole let's innocent children die just because they don't worship him?
But if you kick Him out of schools, I'll give you one good guess who moves in.
Which god are you talking about? What about all the schools in other nations that don't pray to your specific god or any god at all. They don't get shot up. God has nothing to do with these shootings.
Other countries whose schools don't "get shot up" also have tighter fun regulations. School shootings have nothing to do with whether or not god is in schools.
*gun, not fun. Sorry :)
Haha, "fun" regulations. "Hey you! No swinging on the swings! And you, stop giggling!"
I hate typos, but at least it was a funny one :)
Bring education back, but keep your god out.
Then no religions should be taught including the backbone of atheism. Don't discriminate against Christianity.
I agree no religions should be in school. Only an idiot believes that atheism is a religion.
There is very little difference.
There is a big difference...
Yeah, because it's not like Christianity has EVER been used for atrocities...
Not even once. Can't think of a single time ever....
To some degree yes. Schools shouldn't be all about God, but atleast let Him in. People don't have to participate but stop forcing prayer out.
It's been this way for awhile now. So technically, you're trying to force pray in. So....there's that...
Not letting prayers be said at games or not allowing God to be mentioned in speeches is pety. Those things hurt nobody
It hurts no one to not have them either. Remember, though majority of the country might be affiliated with Christianity, we still technically have no official religion.
Also, what kind of games and speeches are we talking about? Ones at a public school should not be allowed, but in private institutions, like a Lakers game or something, I could careless if someone wants to express their religious beliefs.
If a kid gives a speech at a graduation or something else similar there is no reason they should denied the ability to thank God or mention Him in other ways. And prayers at school sporting events, if the team wants to say a prayer before or after
What is wrong with that?
Well, if it makes you feel better, they still did all that when I was still in school.
Has nothing to do with God. Most of these shootings, usually have to do with mental illness. The fact that we stigmatize mental illness, leads, in many cases, these people away from proper care. We need to do more to help these people, before...
these kinds of incident happen.
No, but good try.
Schools are for learning.
Churches are for gods.
If you want religion in school, go to a private school.
Absolutely not in public schools. Ever.
Should atheism be taught in schools? Such as the Big Bang and macroevolution fallacy?
lol... Fallacies? If that what you think they are, you really don't understand them. Just because the scientific proof contradicts your religion doesn't mean you can discount it. And there's no such thing as "teaching atheism".
There's no proof.
Denying scientific proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sorry...
Sorry, I think you might be mistaken, the Big Bang and evolution actually fall under the category of "science", not "atheism" as you suggested. :)
The great thing about science is, it's true whether you believe in it or not. :)
Also I don't think that ANY religion or lack there of has any place in public schools. Private schools can do as they please
God can go hang out in Afghanistan's schools. They love that stuff. Unless you're all of a sudden sympathizing with the Taliban, I suggest not jumping on the indoctrination bandwagon just yet.
Only in a religious studies class. Outside of that room, absolutely not.
You think that would change it? That would probably make it worse
And I wouldn't want religion pushed onto kids in k-12. Separation of church and state needs to be upheld
Well voluntarily yes. Let's not force our religion but if someone wants to form a prayer group, say a prayer at graduation or such that's fine by me
Well they're all imperfect except thee and me and I'm not sure about you ; )
It is so sad that these shooters lack morals. There is a special place for people like that.
Call me stupid… but are you referring to hell or an earthy location?
Would you suggest all those who lack morals be sent to prison or the similar?
Well, there's all those little things like bearing false witness, that are uncomfortable
Nice try rocker, evidently this is a religious free zone
I guess the libs like these godless schools better
So do some conservatives.....
As a Christian myself I still disagree with mixing Good and public schools. My belief should not be forced on others. Besides, until we change the current culture of blatant disregard for the value of human life that seems to be prevalent among too
many, these horrible acts ate likely to continue both in and out of school.
**God not Good
Het Kay, how do you about God and public schools ? ; )
You were faster than I ; )
Lol JVC. :)
No worries with autocorrect all postings are forgiven, and all are autocorrect's, Fault !
Yep! Stupid autocorrect....
I don't agree with forcing a belief on anyone either, but it wouldn't be. It wouldn't matter if an atheist prayed, because they don't have any faith, so their participation would be just as ineffective as their lack of participation.
You can keep your god to yourself, thanks.
And what does that have to do with school shooters? Do you think religious individuals are bulletproof?
Religion is for churches, not educational facilities.
And you can keep this violence. Have fun :)
If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it.
Oh...okay...sorry! I couldn't resist!
Your god not being in schools has nothing to do with the violence. Religious institutions are just as prone to violence as any other. Also, religion is me of the leading factors of conflict and killing. Oh, and your god is very murderous.
I do like my healthcare plan, and I did keep it.
Religion is usually manipulated by leaders to get land, money, etc. That's not God's fault. That is people's fault.
Well, let's see... How many people in your bible have been killed in the stories simply because they didn't agree with your god, among other reasons? Very many.
But If they do that with their "religious instructions," how is it a viable solution
Your god has killed exponentially more than than you claim that mine has because of abortions alone.
Many people "disagreed with God". Jesus was the only perfect person that walked on this Earth. All of us have disagreed with God based on our actions. Luckily for everyone today, God sent his only son to die on the cross to save us from our sins.
to this, or any problem, seeing as it has clearly failed. Perhaps address the real underlying issues, which mere religion cannot.
My god? What god? I have none.
You must be speaking to yourself. Not very surprising.
And you can keep telling yourself that, political. By that record, it's tens of thousands.
So how would you fix the underlying issue, L?
Yes, I am changing the subject.
No! Need for me to tell myself that! Jesus Christ, my Lord told us all that!
Since the underlying issue is most clearly not a religious issue but is an issue of the mental healthcare and school security, we could start there.
And some pieces of paper told you that, actually. The same paper that is used to justify great
atrocities and injustices.
Oh! And it's not just "some piece of paper".
Oh, sorry. It's a lot of pieces of paper.
Filled with God's word!
Regardless, wouldn't you agree that the two areas I cited are in need of addressing? Forcing your religion on people isn't a solution, it's a problem.
Woah woah woah! Who is forcing their religion onto anyone? You don't have to believe anything. If anything, schools are trying to push religion out of everything. I am surprised we still have a moment of silence.
This isn't like Obamacare where you are forced to do something.
Oh my gosh. You pay taxes. Get over it. Stop dragging the Affordable Healthcare Act into everything.
How would it not be? It is a blatant attempt to put your religion in place throughout schools. They are public educational facilities, not religious centers. There is no reason for it to be involved. It in no way benefits an individual's education.
And how have I suggested to force you to become a Christian again?
Pumpkin, are you tired of me telling the truth about the unaffordable healthcare act?
The ACA doesn't relate. And you're trying to put God into public schools.
Forcing your beliefs into practice throughout public schools, establishing a religion (violates the first amendment, by the way). You make it seem like Christians are the only people on Earth. News flash... They aren't!
Oh my! Envious or bitter much? Can you maybe copy and paste a quote to ummm...you know back up your claims? Yes, you must also back up your hyperboles too!
Do you not know what the first amendment is?
Do you even know my governmental beliefs on this?
1. I don't think a prayer establishes a religion.
2. Of course, I support separation of church and state which is why I oppose the government forcing Catholics to provide contraceptive coverage.
3. No one should be forced to pray.
First Amendment guarantee freedom of religion. [It]... prohibits the government from passing legislation to establish an official religion or preferring one religion over another. It enforces the "separation of church and state.
Well it really stinks that your personal ideologies and opinions don't change the first amendment.
There is a reason why Rocker choose the word "let" vs "force".
How much simpler can "separation of church and state" get? I'm sorry you don't agree. But allowing religion and prayer into PUBLIC schools violates our first amendment rights.
What is there to be envious or bitter about? Nothing. I didn't hyperbolize, either. It was a simple observation based on your desire to put your religion and yours alone into everything. There is no sense "letting" you ruin more things in that way.
Pumpkin, what religion does an optional prayer establish?
MrL, your god is Satan. Abortion has killed tens of millions. How do you explain away that atrocity?
Awe, cute. A mythological creature? No, I worship no such thing. What is there to explain, exactly? The only murders associated with abortions are the psychos who kill the doctors who perform them or the women who have exercised free control over
their bodies. I was basing my comments on your book. Which doesn't matter much considering its lack of validity, but it was necessary to answer the question accordingly.
What about the psychos who think that the extermination of their own child is morally acceptable? You worship satan if you don't worship YHWH, MrL. If you look in the Bible, you would see that your actions and beliefs are diametrically opposed...
To Christ's teaching. If you payed attention, you would see that Christ loved everyone.
Oh, I agree, killing a child is unacceptable. It's a good thing no abortions involve killing.
And again, there is no such thing as worshipping that which doesn't exist. To avoid wasting my time discussing the merits of your beliefs, let's return to the actual question and I'd like to hear your answer regarding the underlying conditions.
Do you think there are more direct solutions to the problem?
Rocker, Satan is a Christian ideology. Atheists, Jewish, and Pagans don't believe in him. You may want to do some research before you try and argue that point.
No. I think he's older than 18, and unsure he needs a refresher course.
Maybe going to a tech school for HVAC or auto body repair...
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