Show of HandsShow of Hands

sdbrev210 June 5th, 2014 3:18pm

UAW membership is down from 1.5MM in '79 to 391k today, half of what it was as recent as '05. Yet yearly budget losses of $30-$40MM, has prompted a 25% increase in dues. Would you remain a member of this dying and poorly managed organization?

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monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 10:48 am

UAW members make far more and have many benefits when compared to non-unionized autoworkers. You'd be a fool and or a freeloader to not be part of it.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 10:58 am

My dad retired from GM after 20+ years at the Oklahoma City plant. He complains that retiree health benefits are continuously being reduced.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 11:00 am

He also said that the number of employees at the plant in the maintenance department dwindled drastically over the years because of the union. He was an electrician in the paint department. He said they began to outsource a lot of the work

Cont...

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 11:01 am

...to contractors, but union rules said there would always have to be one employee there to watch the contractors. He got paid a lot of overtime to watch other electricians doing "changeovers" and other types of work.

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 11:03 am

If they're paying one person a lot of ot just to watch it sounds like an issue with management rather than the UAW. The benefits would not have existed without the UAW and its their negotiations that kept them from being reduced even more. Much of...

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 11:05 am

the outsources occurred due to deindustrialization which was encouraged by an overapreciated dollar. Unions have tried to slow the process but is usual met with little success.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 11:06 am

They would have used employees like they used to if they weren't so expensive and governed by so many rules, according to my dad. My dad was the 6th person at the OKC plant which is why he never got let go.

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 11:10 am

Employees aren't why deindustrialization occurred. Only 10% of costs for autos come from labor. However its what employers can control the most which is why you see efforts to reduce pay. The other 90% can be offset through outsourcing...

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 11:11 am

US employees could be paid very little and outsourcing would still occur because the materials, construction, factories, etc are cheaper elsewhere due to the strength of the dollar and cheap shipping.

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 11:12 am

Last part is usually due to trade deals like NAFTA

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 11:37 am

This Road and Track article says there's 2.5 GM pensioners for every active worker. It says each car has $1,900 in retiree benefits in it. It also says that GM makes $701 in profit for each car.

Cont....

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 11:38 am

I think employee and retiree costs are higher than what you e been told.

The article is from 2003 which is good because it shows how long the problem has been around. The bankruptcy happened after that.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 11:39 am

I could do better research if I had the time, but what you're saying about the costs goes against what I've heard my dad say and what I've always heard in the news.

www.roadandtrack.com/rt-archive/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 12:02 pm

I don't think the stat about costs included pensions for retirees but I'll have to go back and check.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 12:03 pm

I don't think it did either. If it's 10% and then you extrapolate to include the 2.5 retirees I bet the labor in each car is about 35-40%.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 12:08 pm

Own-up to those sources and their information before you expect to convert me to your thinking.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 12:08 pm

⬆️⬆️⬆️sorry. Last post put in the wrong place.

variable00 New Jersey
06/05/14 10:10 am

I can't help but wonder how much the officers of the union get paid to manage it so poorly.

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itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 9:58 am

Clinton signed NAFTA with republican and democrat support. The unions were pouring tons of money into the democrat coffers while also trying to get Clinton to oppose NAFTA. Their opposition to NAFTA was half-hearted and a definite

Cont.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 10:00 am

...definite back seat to their primary goal of just getting democrats elected.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 10:01 am

And yet the unions keep supporting democrats. Clinton stabbed the unions in the back. Hillary supported it too, but said that it needed fixing. Of course, she only talks about it when questioned.

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 10:47 am

Why wouldn't they support democrats with Republicans demonizing unions and even some members declaring the minimum wage itself should be abolished.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 10:49 am

I'm not suggesting they should support the republicans. I don't support the republicans. I'm saying they've misplaced their support in the democrats and this is ground zero evidence.

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 10:50 am

I can agree with that but right now there aren't any alternatives. Go with the devil you know

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 10:51 am

You are familiar with how millions of jobs went overseas and how today's middle-class is disappearing, right? The party that claims to be looking out for those folks has failed. That might be a good reason to not support them.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 10:52 am

Monkey. Yes on the devil part, I guess. That's really why they're going that way. It's a real quandary.

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 10:53 am

I mean what is the alternative? Make a third party? They don't have the money for that. By sticking with the dems they have a chance to influence their platform to varying degrees of success.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 10:55 am

Few alternatives hence quandary. Supporting a third party means the party you're opposed to the most could win because you've weakened support for their opposition. But why keep supporting a party that isn't doing what it claims to do?

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 10:56 am

I'm an independent and happy to be one. My consolation is that when this all goes to hell I'll be able to tell my kids that I didn't help push it there.

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 11:00 am

You'll keep your principles but give up the opportunity to make things better. There isn't an effective independent party so most end up voting d or r. Unless there's organization within a third party, even voting for the lesser of two evils has more

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 11:00 am

potential to make a positive change than just opting out all together.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 11:03 am

I still vote, just as an independent. I don't vote for people that I can't support including Republitards. I don't even support my own representative, anymore. He didn't get my vote in the last election. I do what I can.

monkey678 Towelhead
06/05/14 11:07 am

I meant you as a general for independents not necessarily you specifically. My bad on the mixup. Until there is an organized structure for a 3rd party opting out is less effective and worsens the problem over settling for one of the parties.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 11:09 am

I understand. It's a valid point that you make, but I can't give support to the GOP anymore. It'll have to be what it is.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 9:55 am

Nope. That's another reason I'm no longer a republican. That party is dying too.

Screw unions, BTW.

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think4yourself Not a safe space
06/05/14 9:27 am

They have destroyed themselves with their greed and arrogance. Let the union die and we could save some American jobs.

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itsOkay no longer answering here
06/05/14 9:56 am

Unfortunately most of those are gone which is probably why the union's membership is greatly reduced. The WTO and NAFTA, both with bipartisan support, have screwed the middle class.

duey in a fools paradise
06/05/14 9:20 am

They have to be members they don't have a choice. So to keep their job, health and welfare and pension they pay whatever they have to. The UAW members I know are pretty hardcore believers.

kscott516 Masks fail
06/05/14 8:29 am

No, it's time to do away with outdated unions. "Progress"!

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jvc1133 61535
06/05/14 8:27 am

No, I escaped it's clutches, learned to despise it

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sdbrev210 The Pursuit of Happiness
06/05/14 9:08 am

Wonder if their budget declined along with the membership drop? Doesn't sound like it with the deficits they're running.