Do you think the Common Core educational standards are good for our overall quality of education?
Remains to be seen! I was stuck in the "new math" movement and that really sucked! So anything new and experimental, I wonder about!
I love how in a forum on education, about 73%+ (random estimate based on my impression & frustration level reading as much of this as I can stomach) of the commentary is rife with spelling & grammar mistakes.
We won't touch the ignorance, circular & inconsistent logic. Yay, American education!
We started doing that in math and I got c's last year I got a's and b,s
Teachers are there for the paycheck and union job security.
You try living on a teacher's paycheck and having kids in your classes act out all day and see if you still feel the same way.
And we wonder way why Walmart logic takes over our lives. CCSS promotes thinking skills, but we are already pretty good at it, so let's the continue to memorize useless tidbits of knowledge so someday a nice political party will explain it to us.
Everyone is a unique person and there should be no "standard" that's basically says that if your not just like this, your not good.
No. I know friends in public school who have 4.0s who skip at least one day every week. It is ridiculous to me that I will work harder everyday at my highschool than they ever will in high school yet they will get into a better college than me.
Not at all.
So happy to see the majority of people here are looking at this farce of an educational plan and seeing it for what it is. We need to get rid of it now!
I am pleasantly surprised at the results here. This gives me hope we may ditch this crap soon.
Is a hangnail good for my finger?
The federal Government has no place or business in the affairs of education at all!
Our education system is failing right now.
First of all, the competition has to be cut down- that is not what education is about and forcing students to take tests for the sake of that is sickening.
Competition is a good thing. Restructuring the tests to actually be competitive among students, rather than simply against the test itself, would bring test scores up in many cases.
Many people don't learn like that. That kind of a mindset brings the focus to the wrong ideas. It focuses on speed instead of accuracy, which goes against education. Competitive systems that are mandatory are extremely stressful and unhealthy.
Restructuring the test to bring scores up is not something we need. We need to stop teaching students that teachers are not to be respected. In early elementary about half the class wants to be a teacher, in middle school you're lucky if you get one.
I never said teachers shouldn't be respected. The fact that older students don't want to be teachers probably has more to do with self-discovery than disrespect. We should focus on learning, not scores.
I agree with you on learning, but how do we know what our children have learned? This is by testing. And, we find out it is not because of finding other jobs when we ask why. The answer is usually, because I cant deal with what they do daily.
If you don't understand your child's homework, google it. I haven't seen any examples that were actually difficult, and I've looked. I HAVE seen plenty adults that are terrible at simple math, though.
Hell no. Teachers have little power, and the admins are puppets of the politicians, who are absolutely clueless and out of touch with reality.
Common core is ridiculous. I have seen some of the test questions....stupid. I will make sure my children do not take those tests.
Everyone who voted yes, doesn't work or have kids in the public school system. The teachers, states, and schools know what is best for their students.
The parents know what is best for their students. Teachers and schools are to be accountable to the parents.
I voted yes and I am in the system as we speak.
I have four kids and one just graduated from high school with honors after taking years of AP classes and I voted yes. I like knowing teachers are all held to the same standards and required to teach kids the same things.
No! The states set their own standards. Kids will turn out better ind different districts, different states. People will move there. COMPETITION! It's good for the consumer. Auto Insurance and cellular phone providers are two good examples. In
Both industries we see the competition causing reduced prices and better quality too get more demand for the product. BASIC FREAKIN ECONOMICS! I'm in sixth grade have only taken a few economics classes and know this.
I feel like this would just lead to an unbalanced level of education when you look at the country as a whole. Not everyone can up and move when their child's school curriculum is lacking a little. Making standards for college would be difficult too.
How often do people move to another country because of education? So moving to another state is almost as unlikely.....
I moved to another state to send my kids to a smaller more child oriented school....when the school in the district i live in failed my kids, i used open enrollment and sent them to the neighboring school.
Have you tried to do a common core homework problem?! It takes 20 mins to solve a simple subtraction problem.
Yeah dumbing down America
Math is the love of my life. I had NO idea how they expected me to solve a simple subtraction problem with an alinear number line, oddly numbered boxes and and arrows jumping around in no apparent pattern
I understand offering several different ways to solve a math problem. Different people find different methods easier, but the tests require the students to explain how they got the answer and if they dont explain it right, the answer is wrong.
If they explain it right, the answer is right....the number they came up with does not matter. So 2+2=5...if they explain how they got 5 right, the answer is right. 2+2=4, if they explain it wrong...they get the answer wrong.
That's government for you: 'It doesn't matter what the end result is, as long as the intent was good.'
My favorite argument for pro-common core was that it obviously works because they use it in China and Japan. Hahaha oh the ignorance
I'm definitely ok with more than one method to solving a problem but common core is very one size fits all. Doesn't help that kids can't even ask parents for help because even they're flabbergasted.
The United States needs to have one standard for every grade in every State for an equal standard of education guaranteed for all. If that student tests out of the academic level there should be a vocational standard alternative, apprenticeships etc.
Didn't you read all the posts? Having all 5th graders across the nation take the same math test is communist. Or fascist. Or some liberal plot to make all our kids Democrats. Or too hard. Or will make them dumb. Or confuses parents. Anyhow, it's bad!
IQ tests give the same tests to the same age group, and last I checked most people don't care.
IQ tests only test one type of intelligence and aren't an accurate predictor of grades
Sure, but that doesn't matter in this conversation. The above comment was about how (apparently) awful it is give all 5th graders the same test. If that's what's so bad about the Common Core then you should be against IQ tests also.
Disagree. A child in a poorly funded public school can't be expected to keep up with or do nearly as well as a student in a well funded school.
Grades aren't an indicator of intelligence. Grades are an indicator of effort.
The United States needs to have one standard for every grade in every State for an equal standard of education guaranteed for all. If that tests out of the academic level there should be a vocational standard alternative, apprenticeships etc...
Remember the poll question about Arabic numerals a while back and how many people so strongly oppose to using them in the United Stares? That was fun.
Haha oh yeah. The ignorant bigots came out that day.
Absolutely not. Never. Ever. More nonsense from people who have no clue.
No. And I am happy to say Texas doesn't use it.
The observer? Really?
Texas uses something very similar. They just call it something else.
So, just so I understand this correctly based on the comments here.. "Common core is bad because Obama did it, and we would rather have stupid children than allow Obama to take credit for raising our international educational rankings?" Got it..
Try rereading some posts.
I find it amusing that the majority here seem to believe that the system nearly every nation currently kicking our ass in education uses is the absolutely wrong way to do it.
You really need to go back & research what Common Core in America actually is. Clearly, you don't have a clue.
There's no legal authority for federal control of education. The only reason that states knuckle under to the fed is that they use taxpayer money to bribe them. It needs to be challenged and stopped.
You could not have said it better. It's all about the money!!!!!
The Feds have "legal authority" until the people have a voice that can overturn it. If everyone thinks it's a bad idea, it wouldn't continue to exist.
The problem WIth our system is there are no parents involved. Dads are lacking and we have far too many single-parent households
True. Without parents that make education a priority for their kids and encourage, assist, and push them to excel in school, it is an uphill battle. The best school and teacher in the world can't always overcome total apathy at home.
Yes, absolutely - education *has* to start at home. And uninvolved, under-informed/undereducated parents definitely are a huge part of the problem!! But the issue is deeper than just that.
The standards are not bad, but like everything the Obama administration does, the rollout has been botched.
Keep the federal government as far away from our schools as possible.
While I can see where people thought it was a good idea, it's way too unnecessarily complicated and there's plenty wrong to out balance what it does right, which isn't much.
Exactly. Essentially, the Common Core is an oversimplified approach to the problem, done in an over complicated way.
Kids go home crying, parents cant figure it out and teachers hare it
Common Core aka The Dumbing Down of America
Where we're all of you during the ridiculous No Child Left Behind nationalized testing of rote learning. Shouldn't you have criticized the federal role in that? Oh yeah, that was King George who could do no wrong!
/smh ... to both.
NO. Nonononono. Absolutely, over my dead body, no.
Of course we need standards, but they're not going to solve the major problems of education which are overcrowding, student apathy, and automatic promotion.
Until we reduce class sizes to around 24, require content mastery before promoting, and address the lack of effort by the bottom performing students, nothing else will have a real impact.
I propose doing away with grade levels. You move on the next class when you've mastered the content. If you're good in one subject, you finish it first. Some students would finish school sooner than others. High school might take 3-5 years.
Interesting concept, out of curiousity, What about the students who don't have the ability to master the content? What about the students who have the ability but no drive to learn?
For the former there would be targeted support classes and maybe they could be assigned to an instructional coach. For the latter, I have no idea. It's already a problem and I don't know the answer. I do support tracking and ROP classes though.
You're dead on. But you left out teacher apathy/cynicism (don't blame the low wages - the attitudes of so many teachers warrant far lower pay than current, IMHO); some of those teachers really don't belong around children!
Also, lack of parental involvement & the fact that education needs to begin in the home.
Be careful what you ask for-remember those old movies with the 16 year old kid still in grammar school. It's a good laugh now but that type of thing really happened.
I will NOT let my children subjected to that communist core bullshit. I track everything they teach my child. I would send my children to private school if i could, the hell with this public education bullshit.
I agree, we need a voucher drive in this country. F.ck the unions. Let us use our tax money the way we see fit. The question is, how do private schools do so much better with half the money per student? Gubment motto should be no we can't.
Breck, private schools cherry pick students for the most part. Many have religious affiliations. Want any kid going Osama Bin Laden elementary? Private schools don't take special needs kids or emotionally disturbed kids, they expel them to public sc
I'm not sure about all that tractor. Yes, many are religious. Catholic schools are ver popular. But they don't force the religion on you. I went to a catholic school and I'm pagan. It was fine. Cherry pick. Like college? You have to apply? Ok
Special needs? Not sure. Don't they need a special school? Tell me more about this discrimination.
Says the bud light pimp
I'm really curious as to how common core assists the proletariat in seizing the means of production from the capitalists?
All i know is my kids will not be brainwashed by this common core bullshit. If any of you people want to then go ahead. Im not allowing some special interest bastard control the education of my kids. The government needs to just stay the fuck out.
But how is it communist?
Alone who do you think runs the private schools especially the charters? Its all for profit buisnesses
The bud light pimp strikes again!
wow, you took that way to seriously. Communism is not just about money. Its about control, manipulation. If you want your kids taught to think in one way, backed up by the federal government then go ahead i could care less.
You don't call something part of a controversial political ideology merely as a slur. If it doesn't support the proletariat seizing the means of production it's not communist. You need a diff term for what you say. Sadly these diffs aren't taught
Breck no one gets to choose where there taxes go. Get over it. Private schools are much better funded that public in most cases. The unions helps keeps teaching an attractive position. It also fights special interests from making your kids corporate
drone with no skills other than to punch a cash register. Private schools do cherry pick often based on grades. Charters have 90% graduation rates bc they kick out their lower performers. That's not education thats a business.
Whatever Mr. English/History Professor. Its a fucking comment. You wanna take something and make it political and cry about it usage then do it with someone else. I dont care.
What's wrong with profit monkey? You don't have a problem if it's a college that's for profit. A little competition would be good.
I'm a history teacher so I'll take that as a compliment. Definitions are important. When people call others commies or fascists without knowing the finer details of each ideology it makes the discussion shrill and useless.
I actually do have a problem with profit in college. Schools should be for everyone not up to some board hat Chery picks who it educates. If that happens education becomes a privilege of those with resources not a means of higher learning for all.
And why can't we choose where our taxes go? It's our money. It's our country. We decide or we revolt.
If we decided the only things that would be funded is the military and welfare. In no society have people chose where there taxes go on a large scale. The revenue and spending of the gov would become inefficient.
Monkey, you are a socialist. You've proved that in your statements. When everyone is equal, then you have equal misery. Just see North Korea for an example.
Good for charter schools for doing whats best. This school of choice in MI is bullshit. Keep them pathetic Detroiters in Detroit. They bus them out in droves and they ruin the suburbs and the schools with their stupidity. Most teachers are socialist
If advocating that every child has an equal opportunity to an education makes me a socialist then so be it. North Korea technically isn't truly socialist anymore btw.
That's a pretty bad reason to be against charters but beggars can't be choosers I guess. What evidence do you have that most teachers are socialist?
Oh for the school of choice its good for the students because kids in Detroit who can't get as good of an education now have the opportunity. It also brings money into the district where normal charters do not.
You should have to go to school in the city you live. Its not any of these other cities problem that Detroit is full of idiots. As you just said its all about money. In the meantime all the schools outside of Detroit are overcrowded and brought down
That's not because of schools of choice. The education budget was slashed by $150m by Snyder. That's not the only reason but its a substantial one. Why do you assume every child or even every person from Detroit is an idiot?
Here we go, blame Synder. The only excuse liberals have anymore. Detroit was a failure long before him and it will be long after he is gone. Stop pointing fingers for political purposes and figure out a solution that doesn't involve bailing out Det.
I was talking about the overcrowding of schools not Detroit itself. Look for yourself he slashed the budget by 150m. You haven't answered my question. So I'm a liberal now? I thought I was a socialist. Pick one and stick with it.
Maybe if school of choice was not an option Detroit could actually have money to educate their own people. Detroit public schools are far more in debt than a little bit of money that they dont get no more. The cash from the lottery should help lol.
Ending the school choice would bring back some revenue but it wouldn't be enough to put DPS into a top tier system. However if they don't receive money from somewhere it won't get better. For the 3rd time you still have to answer my question.
What question? About teachers being socialist? That has to do with most of them are liberals. We all know liberals follow socialist views and with common core supporters, they just want control over young minds, force them to think like them.
You clearly don't know what either of those word mean but that's not the question I was referring to. My question was why do you think everyone from Detroit is inherently an idiot?
Before u go into a political/History rant, I know what socialism/communism is. I use it as a figure of speech. There is obviously no real proof that teachers are socialist but when they defend a thing like common core and what it stands for. its B.S
That's the problem. If you're using either as a figure of speech then you don't know what it means. How much sense would it make if I called you a racist for not supporting cc because k use it as a figure of speech?
Again you didn't answer the question. Also how is cc socialist?
You want the honest truth. It started 60 years ago when liberals and a certain society took over the city. They caused nothing but destruction and chaos. Im not racist because its the truth. They choose to live that way. They think society owes them.
They play this race card because they think they are victims of society. They choose to drop out of school and collect welfare. They choose to get into drugs and gangs and commit crimes. They are all idiots, because they are victims of themselves.
"A certain society" don't be a pussy come out and say it. You're from here you should already know why Detroit is the way it is. Its not liberals and "a certain society" it was deindustrialization and segregation. In the late 50's factories began to
Alright professor, are you saying in socialist/communist countries that people have the right to choose what they believe? They have a right to think the way they want? Im sure the answer is NO.
automate and the new road system made it profitable to move the outdated factories out of Detroit. With them left many of the workers which decreased the tax base. The only employers of that "certain society" at that time was the city and factories
Once the factories left there were less jobs in industry and that led to a shrinking gov which decreased jobs. The suburbs created laws that kept that "society" out and in a city with no jobs. Even in that city where that "society" could live was
Common Core is just like them countries. Forces kids to think their way. Forces them to believe what they want them to believe. The CC website can say what it wants but its a lie. This is a attempt by special interest ane government to control kids.
limited. Once poverty sets in it creates a cycle of poverty. Many of the institutions that created the problem are still in place. Don't reduce every problem to "certain society." Life is more complex than that and everything is the way it is now for
a reason. Learning what those reasons are is the key to change. Until then you're just perpetuating the problem.
The answer to your question is no. However cc just creates standards not direct curriculum. I'm a cc skeptic as well but the claims you and many other make are absurd and not based in facts.
The reason the factories closed up is because the unions killed the businesses. It's a common them in liberal governed cities. See Stockton and soon Los Angeles.
Im not a union supporter. I like the fact Michigan changed to a "right to work" state. So many people complain but has anything really changed? Nope!! Other than the unions taking more control of businesses and raising rates but thats how they role.
If the factories closed due to unions then explain why the UAW is in every factory in Metro-Detroit? It was the purpose renovating factories and decreased transportation costs that encouraged deindustrualization.
As far as CC goes, I just dont want my kids being taught that nonsense. A lot of states have opt out of it and I hope Michigan does the same. Government and special interest people need to stay out of the education system. Plain and simple.
The UAW is the worst one of them all. Most businesses dont have a choice and they force their way in. They tried with Toyota and others and they told them to go to hell. Its B.S. when you see on the news employees smoking weed, snorting coke, and
I agree the fact that teachers were not consulted but business leaders were is an issue. However there are rational ways to argue against it than railing against a socialist strawman.
drinking.and they get to keep their jobs because these businesses cant fire them because their big union daddy says no. thats just bullshit.
All that is rare. Unions have a wait period to see if you're worthy of membership. They won't tolerate abuse on the job. What real bs is right to work which as was demonstrated in Tennessee is nothing more than a way to kill unions.
I don't get it. Poll after poll shows me that people have the same issues with government overreach that I do, yet no one does anything. The same clowns keep getting re-elected. Nothing is ever going to change.
The same clowns don't always get re-elected, there's just that many more clowns waiting to replace the current clowns we have
Maybe that's true. But when Congress has a 9% approval, yet everyone likes THEIR Congressmen, therein lies the problem.
I find it funny that people confuse engage NY with the common core. Common core is a set of standards that students must achieve in each grade level. Engage NY is one of the first and most widely used, because it is free, curriculum designed to get..
Students to achieve the standards. Engage NY, the math curriculum, is not the common core. Ignorance must be bliss.
The concept is good and needed, the initial instrument may not be the best, just need to rework it
The solution to this is a national standard curriculum that breaks the grade levels into brackets. Then as each student enters a new bracket they take an initial entry test to see how well they learned from the previous bracket. Based upon their
score, students can then be placed in either an advanced, average, or remedial level set of classes for the new bracket of grade levels. This allows students to excel in their strengths and learn and improve on their weaknesses while not being held
back or pushed ahead before they are ready. Education is not black and white. Not everyone's earns the same way. The sooner we can accept this fact and build an educational system around that, we will continue to have these problems.
Sounds good in theory, as these things often do... But there are inherent problems with your suggestion. Grouping & tracking are not best for students. To a degree, kids benefit from mixed ability classes, where they learn from each other.
Also, your system doesn't account for lack of motivation, parental apathy, etc., etc.
... I *do* agree with you 100% that "education isn't black & white," though. We do need to focus more on individual learning styles, strengths/weaknesses, etc. ...
..just not sure your proposition is the way to go either. Definitely need a complete overhaul & restructuring of the system though, IMHO, in order to fix our educational system. A bandaid can't fix these broken bones & internal bleeding.
I don't know what the big deal is! This makes perfect sense! /s
They help us learn; however the totally suck. I guess it proves how lazy we (students) were. Cuz now we have to explain everything for a page, and we won't stop complaining.
Common core is as bad as no child left behind.
The name "common core" just fuçking bothers the shįt out of me.
As I've recently stated, I believe it's a step in the right direction. Is the system perfect? Far from it, but we desperately need to start challenging ourselves and enforcing consistent standards. That will be the real benefit to our society.
setting a baseline just screws over students that accel and are advanced. that math program is ridiculous. who is the idiot that came up with that?
How does setting a baseline hurt students who already excel? I'm not sure I follow that logic. I've heard stories regarding the math, haha, but I don't think it's an issue. We're extremely far behind in basic math, a new approach might be beneficial.
You have kids that potential is held back. A large portion of my class was ready for prealgebra in 6th grade... we had to wait for 7th because of no child left behind. You held back your best to make your worst okay.
That's not the fault of a strong standard, but the fault of No Child Left Behind. We should not be afraid to fail kids if they don't meet the standards, otherwise we will hold the best back. That only illustrates the importance of high standards.
We have always had standards in education. I don't know what all the fuss is about. We update them to reflect the need for higher standards and everyone thinks it's a communist plot. There is so much misinformation out there about education
that it is hard to have an intelligent conversation about it. I am a curriculum specialist for 40 yrs and agree that standards are too low and students are too lazy. Parents play a important role in local education. Take the time to become informed
before spouting crap about education that comes from some talk show loud mouth. Don't get me started on them!!!!
As a curriculum specialist I'm surprised you didn't notice these standards are not developmentally appropriate. Especially at the younger levels.
these standards make no sense. setting baselines has screwed over myself and many other honors kids because instead of schools putting their time and energy into good students they put in into lazy ones. screw the lazy ones. I am sick of...
standardized test practice (algebra) in a calculus class.just because there is some senior who can't pass a damn algebra class doesn't mean we are all that stupid. I want a system that is set to help good students accel not to try to teach bad kids.
Hey honors student, do you mean that you excel?
I excel. yes. 3.3 GPA with mainly honors classes. But if it werent for standardized tests we could have gone farther in calc and I really like that class. I'm going to Pitt for engineering
"We've always had standards" ... Maybe that's the problem -- not that standards are bad per se, but we need to focus more on TEACHING & LEARNING - on children & education that's appropriate to their abilities, strengths/weaknesses,
interests, aptitudes, etc., & that's developmentally sensitive & appropriate!
Mystic, you are preaching to the choir. I couldn't agree with you more.
What's wrong with simple addition, subtraction, multiplication & division? Why make it harder on the kids. Sooner or later they will give up. It's pretty bad when parents can't even help their kids with their homework...
It is sad. But those kids shouldn't have to suffer because of the failures of their parents (or their parents' teachers).
Because if we don't make it harder for our kids and reverse the downward trend in education, we are dooming their kids to also having parents who can't help them with their homework.
The point is to encourage critical thinking and understanding about the concepts. Even if there is a method students can use to quickly multiply what is the point when we have calculators. These new ways of approach multiplication may take longer....
But are helping to teach critical thinking abd understand. Something a simple calculator is not capable of. There is no point in teaching kids to only repeat a method and not understand the concept in depth.
no teaching critical thinking would be teaching them how to add sub mult and div normally and get them into a pre algebra class asap. this is ridiculous. I'm in ap calc and if I would have had to do that back in elementary I would have hated math.
It is not that the standards are bad...though they are aimed at entry level workers and have a huge subjective element. It is the CC package which many states bought and required. It is just terrible!
No, Common Core is merely a more modern way of dumbing down the current generation of vulnerable young people.
I don't know if you've seen our international rankings in education lately, but what we're currently doing obviously isn't working.
Maybe if the Feds got out of the way and let local school districts do their jobs, we can improve. The ranking has been going down ever since the Feds got involved. Let's not forget the proliferation of Liberal academia at every level of education.
What is Liberal academia?
So, while nearly every nation doing a far better job educating their kids than us do so with national standards and nationwide standardized exams, we should do the exact opposite and let every locality come up with their own standards and curriculum?