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MrMilkdud June 3rd, 2014 3:35pm

SeaTac's min wage was raised to $15/hr. To pay for the increase this woman's employer laid off coworkers, cancelled overtime, 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation. Price increases have lowered her tips, so take home pay is less. Is she:

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Comments: Add Comment

ladyniner81 no hope for humanity
06/05/14 3:38 pm

No overtime, no health insurance (hello Obamacare) no holidays, no vacation, less pay, no pension/401K, no vacation and she's better off? WTF?

fifeSymington Rose City
06/05/14 1:57 am

well, if I read the question correctly, yes she is better off. The employer still has the same amount of funds, so if they lay people off, those remaining benefit big time. I didn't read the article, but obviously her coworkers are screwed.

fifeSymington Rose City
06/05/14 2:00 am

addendum: economics 101 says higher minimum wage means less employment. Seattle must have taken this into consideration. I would think conservatives would love this because it means less immigrants in the Seattle area.

bnnt Los Angeles
06/04/14 8:16 pm

Yup, liberals never think of the little things like Economics through.

As long as they feel they're doing good, everything is awesome.

austrian Valid Location, Virginia
06/03/14 9:05 pm

That depends on her utility functions for each of these goods...

But probably worse off.

TomM
06/03/14 8:20 pm

Better off, of course. Now she doesn't have to work overtime, who wants to work extra hours. She's not dependent on tips, who wants to earn their pay. She will get ObamaCare, the government takes care of her. Obama's retirement savings plan is also

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TomM
06/03/14 8:21 pm

better than having your employer support your retirement savings. Her hours will be so few she doesn't need holidays or vacation anymore. Competition from co-workers is eliminated. The government has solved all her problems. /sarcasm

RumpleForeskin Western NY
06/03/14 9:24 pm

I was gonna say while reading this, that this better be sarcasm. Because without saying that, it would sound exactly like what a real liberal statement would be. Lol

Liberty 4,032,064
06/03/14 7:25 pm

Oh Democrats...lol

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cato Santa Barbara, California
06/03/14 7:07 pm

Seattle's unemployment will increase in the coming months/years.

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EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 5:54 pm

Just messing with you...

BadWolf The Library
06/03/14 4:05 pm

When discussing economic impact, its a lot better to have more than a few isolated events.

Just saying. Rule of thumb.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 4:46 pm

This isn't about economic impact.
The question is specifically about this one person.

evoecon nearest binary system
06/03/14 6:38 pm

Economic impact is felt one person at a time.

EarthMunkey The Golden Rule. Always.
06/03/14 3:13 pm

The companies make huge profits before then pay their employees enough to pay rent and eat without having 2 jobs...

They then pay them enough to live normally and still pay their insurance and 401k and all that....they just take a profit cut.

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EarthMunkey The Golden Rule. Always.
06/03/14 3:14 pm

Small businesses will suffer though.

They could suffer a great deal.

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 3:26 pm

Hopefully they will come to Oregon :-)

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 4:18 pm

That pay might bring me out of retirement!

evoecon nearest binary system
06/03/14 6:40 pm

Where do those "huge profits" go?

EarthMunkey The Golden Rule. Always.
06/03/14 6:43 pm

You're joking right?

McDonald's and Starbucks saying that they are going to have to fire people because of the increase in pay? They can afford to pay their people more.

evoecon nearest binary system
06/03/14 6:45 pm

Where do the "huge profits" go?

Liberty 4,032,064
06/03/14 7:26 pm

You understand that places like McDonald's make money off volume, right? They don't make $1,000,000 per cheeseburger.

evoecon nearest binary system
06/03/14 10:01 pm

EarthMunkey could not tell where the profits go.

EarthMunkey The Golden Rule. Always.
06/04/14 5:56 am

Into the pockets of the top of the food chain. Some will go into growing the business but for companies like Wal-Mart...the Waltons are not some of the richest people in the world because they care about their workers. They keep their booty.

evoecon nearest binary system
06/04/14 6:05 am

Earthmonkey, Thank you for responding. Wal-Mart has many workers made wealthy by working at Wal-Mart. Most companies have many owners and profits are the owner's wage. Not all owners are at the top of the "food chain".

Liberty 4,032,064
06/04/14 6:08 am

CEO pay does not come from profits. Employee pay is an operating expense, which is by definition, not profit. Profit goes to shareholders in the form of dividends or are reinvested in the company.

evoecon nearest binary system
06/04/14 6:48 am

Liberty, Correct. More and more retirement money is invested through mutual funds in stocks or corporate bonds. People, not at the top of the food chain, receive the benefit of a company's profit as owners of the company.

swervin Maryland
06/03/14 2:45 pm

But she is getting paid more per hour! That fixes everything! Oh wait, that only fixes things in the fantasy world where a lot of liberals seem to live.

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EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 3:08 pm

I'm hoping that Seattle's wage increase might send business to Oregon.

swervin Maryland
06/03/14 3:49 pm

It should. No one wants to pay some 15 bucks an hour to flip burgers. It's insanity.

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 4:19 pm

That pay might bring me out of retirement'

RumpleForeskin Western NY
06/03/14 6:24 pm

I'm glad Seattle is raising its min wage. Finally, there will be proof to show those liberals that raising min wage is actually bad for the economy and the people.

RumpleForeskin Western NY
06/03/14 6:24 pm

They still wont understand, though. Because they base their opinions on ideals rather than facts.

swervin Maryland
06/03/14 6:54 pm

good point Rumple! Once it fails (and it will) maybe we can end this debate once and for all.

RumpleForeskin Western NY
06/03/14 6:59 pm

We can only hope!

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
06/03/14 2:41 pm

"unintended consequences"

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RJ1969 SoCal
06/03/14 2:36 pm

1) it's too early to tell anything yet 2) anecdotes aren't always the best way to make an assessment.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 3:28 pm

I didn't ask the question about the whole thing.
I just asked if this person is better off.

RJ1969 SoCal
06/03/14 3:42 pm

OK, yes, because she doesn't have to listen to her co-workers complain as much (that detail was omitted in the original story).

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 3:47 pm

I hadn't considered that angle.
And her coworkers don't have to hear her brag about how much it sucks to still have a job instead of living high off he unemployment hog.

It's a win-win

evoecon nearest binary system
06/03/14 6:47 pm

The "minimum wage" applying to a government monopoly (Seatac) will have little employment effect as this wage tax will be passed along to the airport consumer.

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 1:57 pm

I think of it as a giant experiment. Let's see what happens.

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itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 2:12 pm

Exactly! This is why such things are always best done at the state level. Each state is an experiment and we all get to observe the results and make appropriate adjustments. Federal action forces us all into the same mold.

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 2:14 pm

Yes, very true.

RJ1969 SoCal
06/03/14 1:12 pm

The new rates are phased in over 7 years, right?

RumpleForeskin Western NY
06/03/14 6:28 pm

Something like that, larger businesses have to have half implemented in 3ish and all in 6ish years I believe. And smaller ones have longer time to do so, Which 500 or fewer is considered small. :/

roundsquare round square
06/03/14 1:08 pm

Now that Seattle has passed the same law, it will take a year to feel the effects. I predict there will be trouble in paradise.

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jvc1133 61535
06/03/14 12:44 pm

No comment

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roundsquare round square
06/03/14 1:08 pm

You just made one.

jvc1133 61535
06/03/14 1:12 pm

Na, that was a stated avoidance

TheeCourt Realville
06/03/14 12:43 pm

Raising minimum wage is the Liberals first step in collapsing any economy.
Idiots never learn.

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Arananthi Literal Ninja
06/03/14 1:01 pm

Cite me a few examples of raised minimum wages triggering economic collapse, please.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 2:16 pm

He didn't say that raising the minimum wage triggers an economic collapse. He said it was "the first step" which implies that additional steps are needed to do that. I'm not sure I would use the word "collapse," but

Cont.........

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 2:17 pm

...but Oklahoma is flooded with California license plates of people that came here to work because they can't in California. Public policy undoubtedly affects the economy.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 2:22 pm

I'm just hoping they californicate Oklahoma.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
06/03/14 2:42 pm

Just make it $100/hr! What could go wrong

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 2:50 pm

Rebel. I used to think it was good idea for "other" places to raise their minimum wages because it would move jobs to Oklahoma, but then I learned that it brings those people with them and they get to vote. I would rather those seatac people stay put

RumpleForeskin Western NY
06/03/14 6:32 pm

San Francisco. Highest min wage in country (before Seattle) and has highest cost of living. Nobody can move there because it's too much, nuff sed

TheeCourt Realville
06/03/14 9:15 pm

Luckily, to this point, there haven't been enough Liberals in power consecutively to bring the economy to full ruin.
Not without trying I'm sure. Always such idiots when it comes to economy...
...healthcare, environment, foreign policy...just stupid

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 12:40 pm

According to the Seattle Times, the impact of Sea Tac hasn't been felt yet.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 12:41 pm

Hasn't Oregon done similar with their law recently?

Maj Worth Economist
06/03/14 12:45 pm

Thank you. :)

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 1:34 pm

I don't know okie. I get all Oregon news through Tony's polls. I don't recall seeing a poll about it. :-)

Maj Worth Economist
06/03/14 12:22 pm

Something is off about this article and I need more information. There is nothing that talks about the employer here. And the getting tipped less is weird.

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MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:31 pm

Because the higher payroll costs are passed on to the customer. When the cost of the food is higher, customers have less money to tip with. Plus the waiter is now receiving a ‘living wage’, so the lower tip is guilt-free.

Maj Worth Economist
06/03/14 12:31 pm

Also, there are facts here that are straight up wrong. The minimum wage last year in Washington was $9.19 (and Washington pays its hospitality workers minimum wage), so the lady's former wages weren't $7.

Maj Worth Economist
06/03/14 12:32 pm

Additionally, there is no other source on the web that backs this up. The website the article comes from is extremely partisan. I'm calling shenanigans.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:41 pm

That doesn't invalidate anything. The worker could have started back in 2003 when min wage was $7 in seatac, and used that as a reference point for when she made more money to drive the point home about how far back this new law has put her.

Maj Worth Economist
06/03/14 12:46 pm

That's a pile of horse poop. I have no doubt that there have been casualties of the wage hike, but this article is crap.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 1:18 pm

Yes. Just cover your eyes and ears and shout "lalalala." Go to your happy place.

Maj Worth Economist
06/03/14 1:22 pm

The direct quote from the article is this: Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. It is not a quote from the worker. The wage law was implemented January 1, 2014.

Maj Worth Economist
06/03/14 1:23 pm

If the article is harkening back to 2003 for comparison, it's being deliberately dishonest. Right before the wage law was implemented, the wage was $9.19. There is no way that this can be spun to make the article not questionable.

Maj Worth Economist
06/03/14 1:24 pm

And the fact that you are not willing to accept that this article sucks and get your facts from a more credible source just shows that you're in your happy place saying "lalala," not me.

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 1:33 pm

Maj I don't even know if this really qualifies as an "article" -- it sounds more like propaganda utilizing hearsay to push an agenda.

It isn't complicated to understand that when you give people livable wages, they have more money to spend.

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 1:34 pm

Working-class people are less likely to be hoarding that money. It goes right back into the local community.

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 1:38 pm

If you'd rather examine the issue from a reputable source, please read this article in its entirety:

m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/01/04/economists-agree-raising-the-minimum-wage-reduces-poverty/

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 1:39 pm

Naysayers will be quick to point out it's a blog post without even bothering to look and understand that it cites multiple studies and provides information on where you can actually examine the studies themselves.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 2:25 pm

Is this the part where we get into a link posting battle? I could post links to studies about the damage caused by counter-market wage hikes.
But as much fun as that would be, it won't happen because SM and don't speak to eachother.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 2:26 pm

In fact, SM has me on ignore because he can't tolerate people with opposing views, so there's really no point in continuing this thread anyway.

Just a tip- if you ever put someone on ignore it's considered bad form to post in their polls.

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 2:37 pm

Sm, do you have md on ignore?

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 2:40 pm

Sure do, why?

He had made weirdo and offensive anti-transgender remarks on more than one occasion and frankly there's no room for people like that in my SoH experience. They're largely ignorant and I have no desire to argue modern medicine w/ them.

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 2:41 pm

If ajpreyes hadn't shared this poll I wouldn't have seen it, if that's where your curiosity stems from

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 2:44 pm

No, I was wondering because I'd like to see a good debate about this issue.
Thanks anyway.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 2:44 pm

Don't misunderstand, EB, I'm fine with it. SM is a demonstrably horrible person- and that has nothing to do with his gender issues. He's just a mean person who calls everyone a homophobe for disagreeing with him on anything.
I'm happy to be ignored.

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 2:47 pm

yeah, I don't particularly see that happening EB. Mostly because it's difficult to have an intellectual debate with people like that -- he'd probably say something retarded and throw in a few male pronouns. You'll have to excuse my distaste, I just

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 2:48 pm

don't tolerate the absolute retardation of the anti-LGBT crowd. It's classless and they've learned nothing from the civil rights movement.

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 2:49 pm

you can probably take issue with how I put that EB, and that's totally fine, but I don't apologize for it. After some of the incredibly offensive things I've heard on this app, it's easy to be cynical.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 2:50 pm

See what I mean?

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 3:02 pm

Sm- my "I get it" was directed at md.

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
06/03/14 3:04 pm

ohh -- sorry!

Hope you're having a good day!

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 12:13 pm

The do gooders never own to the unintended consequences.

suppressedID keep Summer safe
06/03/14 12:08 pm

The hotel sounds vindictive.

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itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 12:10 pm

Or they don't want to raise rates on their customers.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:14 pm

You also have to consider that this forced them to give _everyone_ pay hikes to make sure pay rates for higher positions were appropriately spaced. They couldn't just bump everyone making less than $14/hour up to the same rate. They had to account...

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:16 pm

...for previous performance and experience raises that might have out some employees above minimum wage already. And what about managers who were under the $14 rate but well above the previous minimum wage rate?

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:18 pm

This kind of hike represents an enormous increase in the business' total payroll.
That money had to come from somewhere.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 12:07 pm

Ha! I caught that on Beck this morning and thought about making the same poll. I'm off today else I wouldn't have heard it.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 12:09 pm

They also took away her free meals and free parking.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 12:10 pm

And they restricted overtime hours which she was accustomed to doing.

gonzoboy Arizona
06/03/14 12:01 pm

Using only the data from poll, the answer seems obvious to the point of silliness. :)
But...
What about the 7-year phase-in?
seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023753163_wagevotexml.html
Seems this business was a bit jumpy. Perhaps?

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MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:03 pm

Two different cities. The Seattle phase in hasn't happened yet.
SeaTac is apparently a different city, with their own rules about minimum wage and this has been in effect for a while now, I guess.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:03 pm

I also assumed SeaTac was a general reference to the Seattle Tacoma area, but it isn't.

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 12:09 pm

SeaTac happened a year ago.

gonzoboy Arizona
06/03/14 12:13 pm

Ahh, got it! Thank you both! I'm continually hearing throughout the day on Sirius, about Seattle being the Country's FIRST city to pass this legislation. Satellite radio is funny. :D

RJ1969 SoCal
06/03/14 11:42 am

Is this a hypothetical or a real example?

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:02 pm

Did you read the article?

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:20 pm

It's real. Not hypothetical.

But it probably sounds like a lot of the hypothetical scenarios conservatives have been warning about ever since this latest push for giant increases in federal minimum wage rates.

RJ1969 SoCal
06/03/14 1:12 pm

I saw your question using the web browser earlier.

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 11:38 am

Hey md, before this turns into a conservative circle jerk, I shared it with my followers :-D

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MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:05 pm

Don't act like you're above it all. You're a closet conservative, EB, and we all know it.

cass95 Jesus 2021
06/03/14 1:24 pm

⬆️❗️⬆️❗️⬆️❗️⬆️❗️

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 1:32 pm

Who asked you, cass!

:-)

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 2:24 pm

I don't think that's the right link.

itsOkay no longer answering here
06/03/14 2:47 pm

You actually tried it? Dangit. I figured any link would sufficient to prove it.

EarlyBird Portland
06/03/14 2:53 pm

Nice try, Mormon boy!

RoDe Latinus wordsus
06/03/14 11:38 am

Or her employer could've taken a pay cut to compensate for paying her coworkers a living wage. Oh the horror.

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MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:04 pm

Unless the employer was already operating on a very small margin, as many employers do.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:07 pm

Do you live in one of the areas that is getting this higher minimum wage?

PrincessPetal Austin, TX
06/04/14 12:01 am

I live in Seattle. I'm 17 and I work at a restaurant and I get paid min wage$9.32(I think we are one of the highest min wage paying states). I already know this will mess things up, prices are gonna rise ://

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
06/03/14 10:08 am

This user is currently being ignored

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Diogenes FreeMeBe
06/03/14 10:01 am

She's better off. Just ask any liberal.

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rstuhr western new york
06/03/14 9:28 am

If it is true then she knows what kind of employer she has. And she can now look for a better place to work.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 12:10 pm

But she was happy working there before all of this happened.
Did you read the article?
The company also provided free meals, free parking, paid vacation, 401k, healthcare, and more.
They simply can't afford all that now after doubling her wage.

kscott516 Masks fail
06/03/14 9:02 am

Lol, they need to shut up and be grateful they got their "living wage". Liberals never cease to amaze me.

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duey in a fools paradise
06/03/14 8:55 am

Love all that progressive weirdness! NOT!

presrvd Phoenix
06/03/14 8:54 am

Can someone who voted "better off" please explain? Thank you.

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chickencookie Jihad Joe
06/03/14 8:53 am

Yay for Seattle! Cant wait to see what those Big Macs and lattes will cost!!

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MrMilkdud
06/03/14 9:15 am

Not Seattle. SeaTac.
I guess it's a different city altogether.
Seattle is working on this same pay increase as we speak, however.

chickencookie Jihad Joe
06/03/14 9:18 am

Milk - i did not read link. Seattle has passed minimum wage yesterday. Minimum wage is now $15 an hour.

MrMilkdud
06/03/14 9:20 am

Passed but not implemented. There's some sort of phased implementation process, I think. But it's just a matter of time before minimum wage earners in Seattle have the same problems or worse.

chickencookie Jihad Joe
06/03/14 9:44 am

Yes. Bad idea all around.

rons WOKE is sick
06/03/14 8:48 am

You reap what you sow!

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