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HayleyS February 12th, 2014 1:40am

Does your belief about how the universe came to be combine God and macro evolution?

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TheMadScientist the mad laboratory
02/11/14 7:43 pm

I think there are some terminology issues with this question, but I believe in the Big Bang, evolution, and, ultimately, that my God is responsible for my universe coming into existence.

TheMadScientist the mad laboratory
02/11/14 8:09 pm

No need to apologies for my views nor anything else ;-)

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 7:41 pm

Dammit Hadley! this is why we can't have nice things.

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
02/11/14 7:12 pm

I tend to give more weight to the entire sum of human scientific knowledge at the cutting edge of present time than to what people thought in the Iron Age. This holds true for most things, not even just religious myths.

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MJSeals J.D.
02/11/14 7:11 pm

As an agnostic… I have no idea :P

Skarface Banned
02/11/14 7:07 pm

I have no reason to believe in the existence of a creator, much less any specific creator.

droo Santa Barbara
02/11/14 6:59 pm

Macro-evolution has nothing to do with the beginning of the universe, nor does it have anything to do with the origin of life. It has everything to do with how the diversity of life came to be, and the very principle of chance and randomness on which

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droo Santa Barbara
02/11/14 6:59 pm

it relies is inconsistent with an omnipotent, omniscient God with a divine will and plan.

HayleyS looking up.
02/11/14 6:59 pm

Yeah I know. I don't know how to ask what I wanted to ask :(

sadewt Rexburg, Idaho
02/11/14 8:49 pm

or maybe it's not random chance, but intelligent design...

magnum
02/11/14 6:59 pm

I forgot to tell everyone that I'm God. Oops!

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swervin Maryland
02/11/14 7:01 pm

That's more believable than Christianity.

magnum
02/11/14 7:09 pm

Swervin FTW!

dale41 Grand Master of FIRSTS
02/11/14 6:57 pm

I think there is a higher being, but I think physics, science, math, etc... Have more to do with it.

eLucidate writing
02/11/14 6:55 pm

I think physics has more to do with the universe than biology.

HayleyS looking up.
02/11/14 6:58 pm

Well yeah.. What I'm trying to ask is if you believe God started everything, but he didn't create us as we are now, like young earth creationists believe.
I probably did a poor job writing the question though lol

HayleyS looking up.
02/11/14 7:04 pm

Cool.. I wish I could close it and figure out how to say exactly what I mean. Too late now though. *sigh* lol

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 6:55 pm

No. God alone. Macrevolution is a myth. Microevolution, however, does exist, and has been responsible for the differentiation of dog breeds, etc.

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droo Santa Barbara
02/11/14 6:57 pm

The only reason you don't accept macroevolution is because it is inconsistent with your Bible. Don't use scientific reasoning to accept micro and personal belief to reject macro and expect us to think you are logical.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 7:06 pm

Droo, there is evidence all around us for microevolution. There is not one shred of real evidence for macroevolution. You cannot produce one single transitional form. Nor will you ever be able to. The only reason some of you folks accept

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 7:09 pm

macroevolution is religious also - it is the categorical rejection of the possibility that God would directly create all that exists. Now tell me that I have not been logical in this post.

droo Santa Barbara
02/11/14 7:12 pm

You have not been logical in this post.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 7:20 pm

Tom, Christian apologists employ the best logic and reason backed up by facts and history, and all secularists can say is that they disagree.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 7:47 pm

Yeah, genetics, DNA, Physiology, and fossils aren't shreds of evidence! but god, that shit's proven science!

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 7:52 pm

Dues, creation testifies of it's Creator.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:11 pm

No, it doesn't. It show's that said "creation" exists. It states nothing about a creator, especially when there is a natural alternative with evidence to support it.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 8:13 pm

The evidence backs that the universe and life could ONLY have come from the Creator.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:17 pm

Not really, that's a rather narrow world view most things have a natural explanation.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:18 pm

And as for the universe goes, many cosmologists agree that the universe didn't need a creator.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 8:26 pm

Dues, two things: first, the right amount of matter/antimatter had to be so extremely perfect at the creation of the universe that had the amounts been off by even a tiny bit the universe wouldn't have been. Second, when you apply the math, an entire

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 8:30 pm

universe fill of organic soup wouldn't have been enough to start life. Multiply those two impossibly small "chances" together & the possibility of both our universe and life starting on its own is completely impossible even with a trillion big bangs.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:36 pm

For your first assertion, there's only one way for the universe to exist for us to be able to observe it, which is to have an equal amount of matter to anti matter. If we didn't have that balance then you and I wouldn't observe it. So what you're

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:37 pm

attributing to god is simply inevitable, it's the only way to observe it.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:39 pm

For your second assertion, it is impossible to put a percentage of chance on the likeliness that life is some rare gift and that it "couldn't possibly of started without a god" because we haven't explored the universe at all. So we don't know how

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 8:43 pm

Dues, the leading secular scientists now freely admit they have no plausible idea how life could have started. Leading physicists and mathematicians now recognize the odds of the universe and life accidentally coming into existence is virtually zero.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 8:44 pm

To argue against the existence of the Creator God you have to argue against physics, math and biology.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:49 pm

You do realize that there are multiple theories of a abiogenesis attempting to explain how life first started right? So to say that they have no idea is a complete lie. Also I can site many leading cosmologists that disagree with you. What's your

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:51 pm

Also you might want to tell this to 49% of scientists and 92% of the world class scientists at the national academy of science who are atheist or agnostics.

sadewt Rexburg, Idaho
02/11/14 8:53 pm

to nitpick, isn't cosmology the horoscope stuff?

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:56 pm

What? no! cosmology is the study of the origin of the universe, it's an advanced section of astrophysics.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 8:56 pm

You're thinking of astrology Lol.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 8:58 pm

Dues, no one has a remotely provable theory of how life began. Some scientists are now making the argument that since life could not have begun on earth, aliens must have brought it here. Others argue, a totally different, much easier to form life

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 9:00 pm

must have started on another world, and that life evolved sentience and then it created DNA and brought that to earth. Talk about grasping at straws.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 9:01 pm

Dues, you can admit that you do not know God, that's just being honest, but to argue God does not exist you must abandon all reason and logic.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 9:03 pm

Show me a link to a peer reviewed scientist that believes this, because what you're saying sounds like panspermia being spewed by someone who doesn't understand the theory. Also we have observed amino acids and primitive cell walls arise naturally in

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 9:04 pm

labs which are the building blocks for primitive RNA, so what you stated was utter rubbish.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 9:05 pm

You're literally using straw man logical fallacies all over the place, site credible peer reviewed scientists saying the things that you've been attributing to them or admit that you're lying.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 9:07 pm

The complexity of a living cell is beyond the scope of chance creation. The math simply does not support life created by happenstance.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 9:10 pm

Deus, no scientist can even remotely prove an origin of life theory outside of the Creator God.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 9:10 pm

You keep making untrue statements. No one will argue that current cells were what arose, they evolved like anything else that undergoes natural selection.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 9:12 pm

This is like talking to a wall, I told you that they have and provided specific incidences where they have.

droo Santa Barbara
02/11/14 9:14 pm

"Evolution isn't backed by facts"

*States point and expects rebuttal*

"Evolution isn't backed by facts*

rinse and repeat

ACTUALLY REFUTE HIS POINTS. PROVE HE IS STUPID DONT JUST SAY HE IS STUPID THAT MEANS NOTHING.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 9:19 pm

Also are we god? because we created life a few years ago, well we didn't Dr. Craig Venter did.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 9:43 pm

Drooski, this is not an argument about evolution, but rather the origin of the universe and of life and if those things could be possible by chance or if they require a creator to exist. I believe Deus sincerely wants the truth, as do I. No one is

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 9:44 pm

trying to prove the other is stupid, so please butt out if you don't have anything productive to add.

Joshua77 Jesus is Lord
02/11/14 9:45 pm

Deus, that Venter story is fascinating. BTW, Ventor said he did not create life:

www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/05/21/venter.qa/

Also, obviously what Venter did was far from random chance.

DeusOrbus Stay Positive
02/11/14 9:56 pm

He didn't create it from scratch to be precise. But that's neither here nor there. My points prior still stand.

HayleyS looking up.
02/11/14 6:45 pm

Meh there shouldn't be a space in macroevolution. Oh well

Jack14 Massachusetts
02/11/14 6:46 pm

At t=0 there were no laws of physics, remember.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
02/11/14 6:43 pm

No, and I see both as saying the same thing, at the beginning. Genesis says God was always there without bothering to address where God came from, and science says we have no idea. Potayto, potahto.

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sadewt Rexburg, Idaho
02/11/14 6:49 pm

that was surprisingly fair to religion.

nickyreads You Are Loved
02/11/14 6:42 pm

God but not macroevolution, though I know many aren't Christians and those who are often believe this

Cole12 ...
02/11/14 6:42 pm

Nope…I'm closer to becoming an atheist every single day.

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nickyreads You Are Loved
02/11/14 6:42 pm

as in you're not now?

Cole12 ...
02/11/14 6:43 pm

I identify as an agnostic right now.

nickyreads You Are Loved
02/11/14 6:47 pm

I hate to be the one to say this, but that's worse than unbelief, according to the bible

Cole12 ...
02/11/14 6:52 pm

Umm…ok. I'm not really concerned about what's "worse" - I only care about facts and evidence.

HayleyS looking up.
02/11/14 6:52 pm

Agnosticism is worse than unbelief to God? So what.. You get a worse version of hell if you die as an agnostic?

HayleyS looking up.
02/11/14 6:54 pm

God thinks "I don't know if there is a God" is worse than "I don't believe there is a God"?
I don't understand that.

nickyreads You Are Loved
02/11/14 6:56 pm

Haley, I don't pretend to know and don't care to find out
reference is revelation 3:16

nickyreads You Are Loved
02/11/14 6:57 pm

God thinks refusing to acknowledge either side and sitting on the fence is worse than openly rejecting him.
2 yards: God's house on one side of fence, devil's on the other. devil owns the fence