Inspired by IMO: a woman intentionally dresses in revealing clothing, taunts men, etc. Simply put she acts like a prostitute, but doesn't charge money for her service. If a man rapes her, is she totally blameless?
Of course she's blameless. I don't care how she's dressed, if you can't control yourself to the point where you harm her it's your fault.
not 100% blameless but mostly blameless
My point exactly.
Rape is not about sex. It is about power & control. So, yes, she is blameless.
I am not excusing her behavior, but it was not a factor in the rape.
A lot of people, including Rocker, has this misconception about rape that it's based on sex.
I know. It is a common misconception.
Please inform me as to how you two came to that conclusion. I'm honestly curious.
Because you keep arguing that her attire is factor when it is only a factor if sex is the motivation.
It's been a known fact in the psychological and law enforcement field for quite a while. I would take some time to look it up.
Rape is not based on sex.
Unarmed people are more often victims than not. If a woman has a gun (for example), she is equal with the man and overpowers him in this case.
Rocker, I love you, buddy, but you want us to agree that it is partially her fault, so you keep arguing it from different angles. Your initial question was based on her attire & being a tease, but now you are arguing that it is due to lack of a
weapon. Your initial question assumed that rape was about sex, because otherwise her attire & being a tease are incapable of being a factor. Now, you are arguing that lack of attire means lack of self-defense. Most clothed women aren't carrying a
gun & it some places it would be illegal for them to do so.
I think we should be trained & able to protect ourselves, but that is an entirely different conversation than if a woman's attire is a factor in rape.
Men should be offended when someone claims that women should prevent rape by not wearing certain things or not going certain places or not acting in a certain way.
That line of thinking presumes that you are incapable of control. That you are so base and uncivilized that it takes extraordinary effort for you to walk down the street without raping someone.
That you require a certain dress code be maintained, that certain behaviors be employed so that maybe today, just maybe, you won’t rape someone.
I know someone who was raped. What she was wearing: jeans and a t-shirt. I see women dressing "provocatively" all the time who have never been raped. Women should be able to wear what they are comfortable wearing without the fear of being raped.
+1000 and a HELL YEAH.
Do either of you acknowledge that there are some men who are incapable of self-control and women for that matter?
Well she was acting careless and stupid, certainly. But nothing excuses a man forcing his will on a woman. Nothing. A good man would drive her home and make sure she gets there safely. Not take advantage of her.
I agree, but its her fault for not looking out for herself.
Yeah, she clearly wanted to be raped.
<obvious sarcasm. If you agree with any form of my above statement, you should be pissed that you're that stupid.>
Nobody is saying that, it's about not making yourself a target.
If I was to walk around San Francisco after dark wearing assless chaps, I'm pretty sure I'd get raped...
And while I wouldn't be blamed for getting raped, I should have known better than to dress like a piece of meat ripe for the taking...
Also I gotta say, when wen wear shirts that say things like "kiss me in beautiful" or other phrases of the suggestive nature or ones that specifically tell the person reading to do something(we have all seen these), is it wrong if a stranger does it?
I think about this more in regards to does someone have blame for making themselves a target. Sometimes I forget to put our garage door down at night. A thief could steal stuff out of our garage or even walk into the house and take things in the
Middle of th night. If that happened when I left the garage wide open I would blame myself. What the thief did is still wrong, but I made myself a target for a crime. In this scenario, all the factors come into play. If it was only the way she
Dressed or only the attitude and personality that was displayed then I would say no. But when you combine all if it then yes there is blame for making one self a target, not blame for the crime though. They are two seperate things
She's completely blameless.
Yes shes completely blameless.
Rape is never the victim's fault.
Rape is never the victim's fault.
Rape is never the victim's fault.
No means no, it's her body. Nobody asks to be raped. Ever.
I agree. People act as if it's like dangling a piece of meat in front of a dog.
Women are not pieces of meat, don't treat them that way.
Men are not dogs, don't treat them that way.
Never a victim's fault? Not at all? Keep in mind that the tragedy could have been avoided if the woman would learn how to dress and behave.
Camigirl, for once I agree with you. Women should not be treated as objects, but they should also take time to inform themselves that we live in a world that doesn't believe that way.
And that they should take any necessary precautions to avoid such situations.
It was bound to happen. But I think you have a misconception about rape. It's not about sex, or sexual attraction at all. Clothing doesn't matter. Rapist just want to express power and domination, so they will choose someone acting vulnerable.
"If the women would learn how to dress and behave."
What about the men behaving? Why are they excused from "behaving?" They should control themselves.
I agree there are precautions like don't bury your face in your phone when you walk, be alert, etc. But whether you dress conservatively or provocatively doesn't matter. It matters if you look like someone who will be easy to catch off guard.
And even if they don't take those precautions, still not their fault. Just thought I'd throw that in there.
Camigirl, so the goal of the woman should be to appear invulnerable. Carrying a gun would be a great start. Where will a woman who is nude in public carry a gun? Same place she keeps her head?
The last part was a joke, but the fact that walking nude in public is very bad judgment on woman's end should be acknowledged.
In some countries like Afghanistan, women are forced to cover from head to toe; care to explain why rape is a huge problem there, too?
Objectification of females?
Maybe? I don't have all the answers
It's because it doesn't matter how much or how little skin a woman shows, or how she acts. A man makes the choice to rape. It's all about fear and domination.
Rocker, I know several women who have been sexually assaulted, myself included & none of us were dressed provocatively. I also know several women who frequently dress like prostitutes, but have never been assaulted. Attire is not a factor.
Bamagirl, sorry to hear about you and your friends' situation. Do you agree that wearing little can make one a target, though?
No, Rocker. It might make you a more likely victim of date rape, but not stranger rape. Rocker, I don't think you understand that rape is not about sex.
Yes, ma'am, I do understand that rape isn't for sexual pleasure. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to conceal a weapon if you don't wear much?
I grant you that a scantily clad woman is likely not armed, but he has no way to know that she isn't trained in martial arts or self defense. That said, pepper spray is small & could tucked in a bra, so she still could be armed.
There is never a reason to rape. She may not be too smart to act the way she does but that doesn't make it her fault.
Rape is never the fault of the victim. What kind of sick person blames the victim?
I don't think "sick" would be the proper insult. It would be asinine for the woman to behave and dress when she would know that there are men that would do that. It's called looking out for oneself.
Are you serious? It doesn't matter how some one dresses, they weren't asking to be raped.
In a way, they were. Don't fear, I agree that the man is at fault.
No, in absolutely no way were they asking to get raped. You've said a lot of things I don't agree with but this is low.
Low? maybe, but accurate. I love how women nowadays can do what they please without possessing any responsibility. I'll vouch for "equality" in that area.
if a man is dressed In a nice suit, and often walks through poor parts of town giving people money, is he to blame for being mugged?
No it's the muggers
He should have known better. Not 100% at fault.
But not 100% blameless.
What the heck do you mean "he should have known better"? Giving away money to people is need is cause for being mugged?
No, but it was a bad choice on his part to go to a city where should have known that would happen.
So instead of telling him not to go to the bad part of town, tell people not to steal. Instead of telling girls to cover themselves and be afraid, tell men not to rape. It's simple. Unload the gun instead of putting on a bulletproof vest.
Good solution. People are so competent at following directions. People will do something immoral if they are desperate enough, from some conversations on here it is very obvious that there are some people that don't even have morals.
It appears you are the one who lacks morals if you blame a rape victim for being raped.
*Partial blame. Majority belongs to the aggressor, the rest belongs to the woman wooing him.
She is 100% blameless.
That's what I expected to hear. I disagree, but I knew it was coming.
Haha, I had to reiterate it anyway.
Well, thanks for your participation!
No. The man chose to act on the action
Jenna, she holds no responsibility whatsoever?
Rape is rape
I'm not defending the aggressor, but don't you realize that the woman was taunting him? I thought I made it clear.
Look in the mirror, he's responsible for his action
Being taunted isn't a good reason to act. We all learned that as children. If someone sees a fat wallet in your pocket n robs you is it your fault? No, but I bet your wallet isn't so thick next time.
Good point, but if you know for a fact that people are poor and desperate in your town, do you flash them your fat wallet?
You trust people to control themselves. It's a choice on their part that you have no control over.
You are aware that there are, indeed, some people who lack self-control? Some people really don't have a conscience. This knowledge will empower you if you believe if.
If they lack self-control, it's not her fault. They made the choice, regardless of how much"self-control" they have. If she said no, then that means no.
I don't think you are understanding my point. The knowledge that there are men who will rape a woman should put the ball in her court to take the necessary precautions.
That's just wrong!
She shouldn't have to. There are people out there who murder, do we always take precaution against them? There are people out there who steal, do we always take precaution against them? We have to trust the people around us, or else there's no hope.
If your walk down the sidewalk and someone decides to run you over is it your fault? After all you knew by walking down the sidewalk that it was a possibility.
Sisspiffy, people cannot be trusted.
Rocker-what a terrible attitude to have
It has served to protect. If I'm wrong about a person I will be pleasantly surprised :)
Rocker, your premise is flawed, because rape is not about sex. It is about violence, power, & control.
Bamagirl, I understand that, but think about this. Would you walk into a ghetto in Detroit, for example, dressed in obviously expensive clothing and big purse, potentially containing valuable possessions? I hope not. Keep in mind that many
evil people in the world are intelligent. Most would not attack someone who appears like they could successfully defend them self.
Rocker, I wouldn't, but robbery is about a desire for money or belongings, while rape is about power & control, not sex. In your Detroit scenario, I would be tempting robbers with what they desire, not so with rape.
Bama, I realize this. I'm talking about vulnerability.
Rocker Jesus Christ give it up
If a man wants to rape someone, he usually has a type, but it is typically not someone that he views as vulerable, because as I pointed out it is about proving his power, so all he cares is that he can overpower them or that he has a weapon to scare
them into reluctant compliance.
Bama, I see where you are coming from and it makes sense. My point is concerning the woman acknowledging that there is potential danger and she has the duty to prepare accordingly.
There is potential danger daily regardless of attire & yes, women should take every precaution. I am not at all advocating for immodesty, but even if she is naked, she is not responsible for the sicko rapist's behavior.
What I'm saying is that he is responsible for his actions and she is responsible for hers (inaction, rather).
She is responsible for her behavior, but her behavior does not make her partly responsible for him raping her.