Show of HandsShow of Hands

Rocker February 12th, 2014 12:00am

Inspired by IMO: a woman intentionally dresses in revealing clothing, taunts men, etc. Simply put she acts like a prostitute, but doesn't charge money for her service. If a man rapes her, is she totally blameless?

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FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
02/12/14 11:19 am

Of course she's blameless. I don't care how she's dressed, if you can't control yourself to the point where you harm her it's your fault.

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makem Chinese Xinjiang Camp
02/12/14 5:41 am

not 100% blameless but mostly blameless

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 3:33 am

Rape is not about sex. It is about power & control. So, yes, she is blameless.

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BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 3:34 am

I am not excusing her behavior, but it was not a factor in the rape.

camigirl
02/12/14 6:01 pm

A lot of people, including Rocker, has this misconception about rape that it's based on sex.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:17 pm

I know. It is a common misconception.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 6:22 pm

Please inform me as to how you two came to that conclusion. I'm honestly curious.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:24 pm

Because you keep arguing that her attire is factor when it is only a factor if sex is the motivation.

camigirl
02/12/14 6:27 pm

It's been a known fact in the psychological and law enforcement field for quite a while. I would take some time to look it up.
Rape is not based on sex.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 6:36 pm

Unarmed people are more often victims than not. If a woman has a gun (for example), she is equal with the man and overpowers him in this case.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:41 pm

Rocker, I love you, buddy, but you want us to agree that it is partially her fault, so you keep arguing it from different angles. Your initial question was based on her attire & being a tease, but now you are arguing that it is due to lack of a

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:43 pm

weapon. Your initial question assumed that rape was about sex, because otherwise her attire & being a tease are incapable of being a factor. Now, you are arguing that lack of attire means lack of self-defense. Most clothed women aren't carrying a

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:44 pm

gun & it some places it would be illegal for them to do so.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:45 pm

I think we should be trained & able to protect ourselves, but that is an entirely different conversation than if a woman's attire is a factor in rape.

countrygirl94
02/11/14 10:02 pm

Men should be offended when someone claims that women should prevent rape by not wearing certain things or not going certain places or not acting in a certain way.

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countrygirl94
02/11/14 10:02 pm

That line of thinking presumes that you are incapable of control. That you are so base and uncivilized that it takes extraordinary effort for you to walk down the street without raping someone.

countrygirl94
02/11/14 10:02 pm

That you require a certain dress code be maintained, that certain behaviors be employed so that maybe today, just maybe, you won’t rape someone.

countrygirl94
02/11/14 10:18 pm

I know someone who was raped. What she was wearing: jeans and a t-shirt. I see women dressing "provocatively" all the time who have never been raped. Women should be able to wear what they are comfortable wearing without the fear of being raped.

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
02/12/14 11:20 am

+1000 and a HELL YEAH.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 12:19 pm

Do either of you acknowledge that there are some men who are incapable of self-control and women for that matter?

curly
02/11/14 8:22 pm

Well she was acting careless and stupid, certainly. But nothing excuses a man forcing his will on a woman. Nothing. A good man would drive her home and make sure she gets there safely. Not take advantage of her.

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Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 12:20 pm

I agree, but its her fault for not looking out for herself.

Skarface Banned
02/11/14 7:12 pm

Yeah, she clearly wanted to be raped.



<obvious sarcasm. If you agree with any form of my above statement, you should be pissed that you're that stupid.>

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bluerum29 optimistic idealist
02/11/14 8:17 pm

Nobody is saying that, it's about not making yourself a target.

rickvee Living the dream
02/11/14 6:33 pm

If I was to walk around San Francisco after dark wearing assless chaps, I'm pretty sure I'd get raped...

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rickvee Living the dream
02/11/14 7:18 pm

And while I wouldn't be blamed for getting raped, I should have known better than to dress like a piece of meat ripe for the taking...

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
02/11/14 6:29 pm

Also I gotta say, when wen wear shirts that say things like "kiss me in beautiful" or other phrases of the suggestive nature or ones that specifically tell the person reading to do something(we have all seen these), is it wrong if a stranger does it?

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
02/11/14 6:23 pm

I think about this more in regards to does someone have blame for making themselves a target. Sometimes I forget to put our garage door down at night. A thief could steal stuff out of our garage or even walk into the house and take things in the

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
02/11/14 6:24 pm

Middle of th night. If that happened when I left the garage wide open I would blame myself. What the thief did is still wrong, but I made myself a target for a crime. In this scenario, all the factors come into play. If it was only the way she

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
02/11/14 6:26 pm

Dressed or only the attitude and personality that was displayed then I would say no. But when you combine all if it then yes there is blame for making one self a target, not blame for the crime though. They are two seperate things

jmw7477 Indiana
02/11/14 5:42 pm

She's completely blameless.

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Axl752 NY
02/11/14 5:38 pm

Yes shes completely blameless.

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FutureMD be nice to people
02/11/14 5:34 pm

Rape is never the victim's fault.
Rape is never the victim's fault.
Rape is never the victim's fault.
No means no, it's her body. Nobody asks to be raped. Ever.

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camigirl
02/11/14 5:43 pm

I agree. People act as if it's like dangling a piece of meat in front of a dog.
Women are not pieces of meat, don't treat them that way.
Men are not dogs, don't treat them that way.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:44 pm

Never a victim's fault? Not at all? Keep in mind that the tragedy could have been avoided if the woman would learn how to dress and behave.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:47 pm

Camigirl, for once I agree with you. Women should not be treated as objects, but they should also take time to inform themselves that we live in a world that doesn't believe that way.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:47 pm

And that they should take any necessary precautions to avoid such situations.

camigirl
02/11/14 5:49 pm

It was bound to happen. But I think you have a misconception about rape. It's not about sex, or sexual attraction at all. Clothing doesn't matter. Rapist just want to express power and domination, so they will choose someone acting vulnerable.

FutureMD be nice to people
02/11/14 5:49 pm

"If the women would learn how to dress and behave."
What about the men behaving? Why are they excused from "behaving?" They should control themselves.

camigirl
02/11/14 5:50 pm

I agree there are precautions like don't bury your face in your phone when you walk, be alert, etc. But whether you dress conservatively or provocatively doesn't matter. It matters if you look like someone who will be easy to catch off guard.

camigirl
02/11/14 5:51 pm

And even if they don't take those precautions, still not their fault. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:56 pm

Camigirl, so the goal of the woman should be to appear invulnerable. Carrying a gun would be a great start. Where will a woman who is nude in public carry a gun? Same place she keeps her head?

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:57 pm

The last part was a joke, but the fact that walking nude in public is very bad judgment on woman's end should be acknowledged.

FutureMD be nice to people
02/11/14 6:04 pm

In some countries like Afghanistan, women are forced to cover from head to toe; care to explain why rape is a huge problem there, too?

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 6:46 pm

Maybe? I don't have all the answers

FutureMD be nice to people
02/11/14 6:48 pm

It's because it doesn't matter how much or how little skin a woman shows, or how she acts. A man makes the choice to rape. It's all about fear and domination.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 3:41 am

Rocker, I know several women who have been sexually assaulted, myself included & none of us were dressed provocatively. I also know several women who frequently dress like prostitutes, but have never been assaulted. Attire is not a factor.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 12:16 pm

Bamagirl, sorry to hear about you and your friends' situation. Do you agree that wearing little can make one a target, though?

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 4:33 pm

No, Rocker. It might make you a more likely victim of date rape, but not stranger rape. Rocker, I don't think you understand that rape is not about sex.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 6:19 pm

Yes, ma'am, I do understand that rape isn't for sexual pleasure. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to conceal a weapon if you don't wear much?

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:26 pm

I grant you that a scantily clad woman is likely not armed, but he has no way to know that she isn't trained in martial arts or self defense. That said, pepper spray is small & could tucked in a bra, so she still could be armed.

tdyakker lost
02/11/14 5:31 pm

There is never a reason to rape. She may not be too smart to act the way she does but that doesn't make it her fault.

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swervin Maryland
02/11/14 5:31 pm

Rape is never the fault of the victim. What kind of sick person blames the victim?

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Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:41 pm

I don't think "sick" would be the proper insult. It would be asinine for the woman to behave and dress when she would know that there are men that would do that. It's called looking out for oneself.

swervin Maryland
02/11/14 5:49 pm

Are you serious? It doesn't matter how some one dresses, they weren't asking to be raped.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:51 pm

In a way, they were. Don't fear, I agree that the man is at fault.

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
02/12/14 11:24 am

No, in absolutely no way were they asking to get raped. You've said a lot of things I don't agree with but this is low.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 12:23 pm

Low? maybe, but accurate. I love how women nowadays can do what they please without possessing any responsibility. I'll vouch for "equality" in that area.

sadewt Rexburg, Idaho
02/11/14 5:11 pm

if a man is dressed In a nice suit, and often walks through poor parts of town giving people money, is he to blame for being mugged?

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JennaAwesome Book Lover
02/11/14 5:16 pm

No it's the muggers

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:17 pm

He should have known better. Not 100% at fault.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:17 pm

But not 100% blameless.

swervin Maryland
02/11/14 5:37 pm

What the heck do you mean "he should have known better"? Giving away money to people is need is cause for being mugged?

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:39 pm

No, but it was a bad choice on his part to go to a city where should have known that would happen.

FutureMD be nice to people
02/11/14 5:46 pm

So instead of telling him not to go to the bad part of town, tell people not to steal. Instead of telling girls to cover themselves and be afraid, tell men not to rape. It's simple. Unload the gun instead of putting on a bulletproof vest.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:50 pm

Good solution. People are so competent at following directions. People will do something immoral if they are desperate enough, from some conversations on here it is very obvious that there are some people that don't even have morals.

swervin Maryland
02/11/14 5:53 pm

It appears you are the one who lacks morals if you blame a rape victim for being raped.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:58 pm

*Partial blame. Majority belongs to the aggressor, the rest belongs to the woman wooing him.

camigirl
02/11/14 5:10 pm

She is 100% blameless.

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Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:15 pm

That's what I expected to hear. I disagree, but I knew it was coming.

camigirl
02/11/14 5:18 pm

Haha, I had to reiterate it anyway.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:19 pm

Well, thanks for your participation!

JennaAwesome Book Lover
02/11/14 5:07 pm

No. The man chose to act on the action

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Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:18 pm

Jenna, she holds no responsibility whatsoever?

jvc1133 61535
02/11/14 5:20 pm

Rape is rape

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:26 pm

I'm not defending the aggressor, but don't you realize that the woman was taunting him? I thought I made it clear.

jvc1133 61535
02/11/14 5:32 pm

Look in the mirror, he's responsible for his action

tdyakker lost
02/11/14 5:37 pm

Being taunted isn't a good reason to act. We all learned that as children. If someone sees a fat wallet in your pocket n robs you is it your fault? No, but I bet your wallet isn't so thick next time.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 5:38 pm

Good point, but if you know for a fact that people are poor and desperate in your town, do you flash them your fat wallet?

FutureMD be nice to people
02/11/14 5:54 pm

You trust people to control themselves. It's a choice on their part that you have no control over.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 6:00 pm

You are aware that there are, indeed, some people who lack self-control? Some people really don't have a conscience. This knowledge will empower you if you believe if.

FutureMD be nice to people
02/11/14 6:03 pm

If they lack self-control, it's not her fault. They made the choice, regardless of how much"self-control" they have. If she said no, then that means no.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 6:05 pm

I don't think you are understanding my point. The knowledge that there are men who will rape a woman should put the ball in her court to take the necessary precautions.

FutureMD be nice to people
02/11/14 6:08 pm

She shouldn't have to. There are people out there who murder, do we always take precaution against them? There are people out there who steal, do we always take precaution against them? We have to trust the people around us, or else there's no hope.

tdyakker lost
02/11/14 6:10 pm

If your walk down the sidewalk and someone decides to run you over is it your fault? After all you knew by walking down the sidewalk that it was a possibility.

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 6:52 pm

Sisspiffy, people cannot be trusted.

JennaAwesome Book Lover
02/11/14 7:30 pm

Rocker-what a terrible attitude to have

Rocker saved by grace
02/11/14 7:35 pm

It has served to protect. If I'm wrong about a person I will be pleasantly surprised :)

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 3:38 am

Rocker, your premise is flawed, because rape is not about sex. It is about violence, power, & control.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 12:28 pm

Bamagirl, I understand that, but think about this. Would you walk into a ghetto in Detroit, for example, dressed in obviously expensive clothing and big purse, potentially containing valuable possessions? I hope not. Keep in mind that many

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 12:30 pm

evil people in the world are intelligent. Most would not attack someone who appears like they could successfully defend them self.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 4:36 pm

Rocker, I wouldn't, but robbery is about a desire for money or belongings, while rape is about power & control, not sex. In your Detroit scenario, I would be tempting robbers with what they desire, not so with rape.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 6:16 pm

Bama, I realize this. I'm talking about vulnerability.

jvc1133 61535
02/12/14 6:22 pm

Rocker Jesus Christ give it up

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:22 pm

If a man wants to rape someone, he usually has a type, but it is typically not someone that he views as vulerable, because as I pointed out it is about proving his power, so all he cares is that he can overpower them or that he has a weapon to scare

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:23 pm

them into reluctant compliance.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 6:26 pm

Bama, I see where you are coming from and it makes sense. My point is concerning the woman acknowledging that there is potential danger and she has the duty to prepare accordingly.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:30 pm

There is potential danger daily regardless of attire & yes, women should take every precaution. I am not at all advocating for immodesty, but even if she is naked, she is not responsible for the sicko rapist's behavior.

Rocker saved by grace
02/12/14 6:32 pm

What I'm saying is that he is responsible for his actions and she is responsible for hers (inaction, rather).

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/12/14 6:38 pm

She is responsible for her behavior, but her behavior does not make her partly responsible for him raping her.