Is there a single concise reason as to why the Christian god is more credible than Zeus?
There's not even a single concise reason why one single god is more plausible than multiple or a population of gods.
Not even one.
The historical resurrection of Jesus Christ.
curly, since I don't want to repeat an argument about this topic, we debated this once, right?
It came up, I have the convo saved. I haven't devoted the time to replying yet :) but I will.
was that on the Passion of the christ poll?
There is nothing historical about his ressurecrion or any other claims made by the bible
Haha Scotty, that is completely false. It is absolutely a historical claim. Absolutely.
Yea it was Matt. I'll get to it this week. Maybe we'll do it on this thread instead.
yeah, Id be able to access it.
If zombie Jesus was a legetamite accountable
If zombie Jesus was a legitimate claim by any means than that would change the entire way we look at him.
Not from my perspective.
Fear is a big motivator for people in my opinion. Zeus was never gonna damn anyone to hell as far as I know? I Could be wrong.
God doesn't either, so what's your point?
I said I could be wrong... Not looking to "be right" with a point, just a discussion. I still think there is fear of not receiving eternal salvation for lots of people, and being "punished". I'm not saying what's fact or fiction, just my opinion.
sorry didn't mean it in argumentative way, just for further explanation. I think that fear exists because they don't really know God or what he's about. he doesn't force anyone into hell but instead offers eternal life and bliss and love
God loves damning people to hell
He'll throw down the next mother Teresa if she doesn't worship him just like he does with everyone who doesn't suck up and worship him
No worries! I totally get that, I think there is still fear of NOT receiving that bliss that can make some, not all, religious. Even if they are not aware of it.
Nothing to fear besides a giant flood lol
people worship him out of love, not fear. and Scotty, he promised to never flood the earth again, so no worries.I get what you're saying, dawl
"God totally promised not to commit mass genocide aga... God totally promised not to FLOOD the earth again! You can totally trust him and worship out of love, not fear that next time it will be seven trumpets and seven bowls of wrath that kills
...everyone who doesn't grovel and worship him! And it's YOUR fault you'll be in Hell! God TOTALLY gives you the choice of eternal torment or doing exactly what he says. God is totally not the exact definition of an abusive relationship. He REALLY
...does it because he LOVES you."
citethesource, you clearly read one half of the most controversial book in the bible and claim to know God's heart??? God gives free will and demands absolutely nothing in return for his life and eternal life other than to love him. service and...
...worship are products of that love. you are preaching a perverted version of works righteousness
No, I don't claim up know the heart of the god you worship, for that god does not exist. I do happen to know the Bible quite well.
I'd recommend not getting into this discussion.
Your god would let hitler into heaven if he "repented" and "found god" before he died, yet would damn Bill Gates, who eradicated polio (and anyone else who was a good person but didn't devoutly worship that one specific god), to hell
citethesource: don't start with me
state: thankfully, I'm not God and don't have to deal with that situation. I'd explain in person, but not over this app
Nicky, it's started. Your worldview is false, a lie perpetrated by those who know better but will actively subvert your life for their own power and aggrandizement.
The Bible only has value as an old book with cultural roots.
As a book of history, it fails. As a book of science, it fails. As a book of prophesy, it fails. As a book or morality, it not only fails, but espouses moral views so reprehensible that Christians spend large amounts of energy trying to rationalize
...the horrid nature of it away.
That is simply your belief citethesource others can believe differently and do so do not make blanket statements
No. It's objective truth. See, I rely on this thing called "evidence". Perhaps you've heard of it? Each of those statement I can back up with proof. Now, if you want to rationalize away the awfulness in the Bible, feel free to do so. Better yet,
citethesource, it fails in none of those regards, so I'm not sure why you're arguing since you have no idea what you're talking about
...join a religiously liberal Christian sect that accepts the reality of the situation and has a different tact in dealing with the issues.
But do not put your foundless, shifting, illogical, unreasoned, and faith-based opinion against fact.
Which would you like to start with, Nicky? I have ten minutes to demolish your position before I need to get to sleep.
Cite the source personally I believe in evolution and I do not think the bible is completely accurate especially the Old Testament however I still believe in god
you're not the first to say that, and you won't be the last. but go ahead, waste your ten minutes. start anywhere you like
rbecker, not an adviseable position since NT is based off OT
Nicky, how did Judas Iscariot die?
What is nt and ot I have no idea sorry. Also did judas die via suicide? I honestly I am not sure
rbecker: old testament, New testament
Really, Nicky? Because the Bible says he fell to the ground and his guts spilled out. (Acts 1:18, I believe, or thereabouts).
and we know that both couldn't have happened because...? we weren't there, I don't know why this is your big unveiling point of why I'm wrong... I never said there were no contradictions, but the important truths are there
No, it's barely scratching the surface. Thank you for admitting so readily that the Bible has contradictions. Many, many contradictions, at that.
So, now we've established the Bible is flawed. What next? These important truths?
Nicky, am I correct in thinking you a male?
never said it didn't, so not sure why you're gloating, but okay you're welcome? Okay, how was Jesus but the Son of God?
and no, female
Female? What!? And you are daring to try and teach me, a man?
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1 Timothy 2:11-12
Is that one of those important truths?
contextualized instruction given to specific church where the women worshipped a previous goddess with sexual interactions. God was not to be worshipped that way, so women in that church were to remain quiet. do your research
Oh, I have. I just don't attempt to blindly rationalize idiotic, misogynistic, hateful dogma.
And the disgusting part is that you believe that your rationalization makes things better, not worse.
Alas, way past time for me to sleep.
Here's something from me just butting in since he's done for the night
Always a great important truth to end on, Statek. :-)
citethesource: you failed miserably, and resorted to insulting my beliefs, so my opinion hasn't changed
Oh, my bad
That was the complete wrong verse
Irrelevant to what I was going for
I meant Ezekiel 23:20
umm...same idea as other one and I'm still missing the connection to this conversation here...
Always seemed funny to me how the Christian holy book contained lust for donkey dicks and horse semen
that is so not what it is taking about... context, people, context!
Nicky, if you recall, one of my statements was that many Christians went to extreme lengths to rationalize their beliefs. I think you proved that quite well.
And my goal was never to change your mind.
It's always a little funny to hear Christians
...whine about context, as if there is a context where telling women to shut up, not to ask questions, and to never dare take authority over a man, a context in which this is acceptable and moral.
Or a context in which slavery is acceptable. Or a
...context in which stoning people for insignificant infractions is acceptable; as if there is a context in which all manner of reprehensible behavior is acceptable.
Then they will turn on a dime, claim their morality is based on objective truth.
there are contexts for all those things, the first which I already explained. I would define extreme lengths to be instances like 9-11 or the crusades
This is where we differ, Nicky. I can and will condemn the atrocities spoken of in the Bible. I can and will denounce the hatred and division inherent in fundamentalist systems. You equivocate. You rationalize. You contort the universe itself so that
...your belief system can be called true.
There is no context in which telling women to shut up and obey because they are women is acceptable. Throwing divine slut-shaming into the mix does not mitigate the horrendous nature of that commend.
and you refuse to listen to truth in the midst of your condemnation
God is real. Zeus isn't. that's like asking is there a reason chocolate tastes different than peanut butter. it just does (which, by the way, God designed)
Lol wut? Do you know who Zeus is?
yeah, Greek mythology. I was into that for a while, I have a pretty good idea. sorry for the bad analogy, but Zeus is just that-mythology. God is real and alive and still moving today! :D
Nicky it's your perception that God is real, not everyone believes so. The way I experience God is very personal to me, I am not religious. I don't expect anyone to believe as if I'm correct.
unfortunately, I don't expect that either. I know people won't listen usually, but that doesn't stop me from sharing what I know to be true. my job is worrying about what He thinks of me, not other people
Funny how what you "know to be true" has no evidence supporting it :P
Exactly Nikki :-)
State nobody here is looking for evidence, we are having a discussion.
Nicky, it's just that you choose to believe the Christian mythology. Try to step outside it for a minute and look at both Greek & Christian mythology without the bias of a believer, as if you've never heard of either,
and ask why one is more valid than the other.
To the Greeks, Zeus was every bit as real and all powerful as your god is to you.
It's no different than Allah, Shiva, or Thor for that matter, the value lies with the believer not he belief.
Why can't you include evidence in a discussion?
They can't include evidence because they don't have any
What he said
state and Scotty, you've seen no evidence because you refuse to look at it. I could show you demons escaping, broken limbs healing, and short legs growing. these are called miracles, and by the power of God they happen all the time
idk why that's funny, but ok. you just prove my point by that response
Okay, then show me them?
And then, you just have something you can't explain
So, if you can't explain something, it automatically means god did it?
So until we discovered how lightning worked, god did it
How? Nicky, that doesn't make any sense
considering lightning was made by God, he actually did. and because throughout history, whatever that's done, it is through God, in Jesus's name. there are several documentaries about this stuff where they actually film it happening, want the names?
many refuse to look at the signs or laugh them off and then wonder why they can't find evidence. they found plenty, but didn't take it seriously
Nicky I swear I can't tell if your trolling or not.
Scotty, I hate that as much as anyone else. I swear I'm not. I am dead serious about this topic; I wish more people were
Convince me: why should I believe in your god vs. Zeus? Do you think you would have been converting me to Islam if you happened by chance to be born in Saudi Arabia or if the Franks lost the battle of Tours?
I couldn't say, but I certainly hope not. I know that no matter what your surroundings, there's no excuse to be found for not knowing God, since we live in his creation. I don't think you'll be convinced by me because you don't take me seriously...
Can you show me how you know we live in his creation?
And lol just think what if he's lying you have no way on knowing now that I think about it.
But I do take you seriously I'm just not used to people being so blunt about it I respect you for that
I appreciate it. to address the secondary question, if he's lying (which would be against character, but another point altogether) he has to exist so...
I know we're in his creation because it is the only explanation that makes since, honestly. since then I've met him on several occasions and he had proven his existence to me personally. but at first, evidence-wise, what else could it be do u think?
Already proven mathematical equations + right conditions for life. And I meant lying about his powers or really anything (given he is real)
the mathematical equations actually prove statistical impossibility and the right conditions couldn't exist. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Kent Hovind explains this perfectly. and he would have no reason to
Zeus is real. God isn't. that's like asking is there a reason chocolate tastes different than peanut butter. it just does (which, by the way, Zeus designed)
yeah, Christian mythology. I was into that for a while, I have a pretty good idea. sorry for the bad analogy, but God is just that-mythology. Zeus is real and alive and still moving today! :D
unfortunately, I don't expect that either. I know people won't listen usually, but that doesn't stop me from sharing what I know to be true. my job is worrying about what Zeus thinks of me, not other people
state and Scotty, you've seen no evidence because you refuse to look at it. I could show you demons escaping, broken limbs healing, and short legs growing. these are called miracles, and by the power of Zeus they happen all the time
considering lightning was made by Zeus, he actually did. and because throughout history, whatever that's done, it is through Zeus, in Hercules' name. there are several documentaries about this stuff where they actually film it happening, want names?
citethesource, you're in dangerous territory and have no place in this conversation is your won't take it seriously
I couldn't say, but I certainly hope not. I know that no matter what your surroundings, there's no excuse to be found for not knowing Zeus, since we live in his creation. I don't think you'll be convinced by me because you don't take me seriously...
Your own birth was practically statistically impossible
And correct me if I'm wrong, but you are currently only a high schooler and have been raised in the Christian church by Christian parents, correct?
Nickreads, you're in dangerous territory and have no place in this conversation is your won't take it seriously
yes, so? and I agree on the birth thing: "God knit me together in my mother's womb"
you aren't gaining any respect by mimicry. it only shows how you have no argument and have to rely on a contortment of someone else's words to make your point. hmm that sounds familiar. awful lot like Satan, enemy of God
Oh, don't worry, Nicky, I'm not really worried about people's respect. And coddling won't help you at all.
Nicky, he's showing through mymicry that all your point can be equally attributed to Zeus
no he's being stupid
I think your purposely ignoring the argument because you can't counter his claim
I did counter the claim. not my fault if the response is ignored
Nicky, is there anything that, if you were convinced your god commended it, you would denounce as immoral? Is there any act it could commit or order to be committed that would cause you to question its moral authority? I'm not asking you if
...you think it would. Please don't bother responding at all of your only answer is something akin to, "But my god would never ever ever EVER ask me to do anything bad!"
I would love to answer your question, but I honestly don't understand it. can you please reword it a bit more simply?
Can you think of anything that if your god did it or commanded it, you would then say that act was immoral?
I cannot think of a specific example, no. but if anything he commanded me to do was considered by me immoral, my thinking would obviously need to change or I would need to look further into that situation. what are u getting at?
nick, would you consider murder immoral?
Matt, depends on situation
would you explain when its immoral and when its moral?
immoral to kill in cold blood or on accident. self defense, no. killing war enemy in battlefield, no
Or when god tells you to kill someone, it seems
nick, what if god were, for whatever reason, to tell you to murder someone in cold blood? moral or immoral (I'm trying to be serious not snarky fwiw)
Matt, plain and simple, he wouldn't. only God has the authority to take someone's life, and it would never be in cold blood since we've all wronged him anyhow. he wouldn't give that burden of responsibility to someone else
assume for whatever reason he did. or, say he decides you must sacrifice your child assuming at the time you have one. moral or immoral?
God wouldn't order someone killed in cold-blood?
Meet Ehud, the assassin sent by god to murder a king in cold-blood.
the child thing happened to Abraham, so I would trust him to redeem me in that situation. he might command something to test obedience. also, the Ehud story want in cold blood. it was Moabite king and God was redeeming the Jews from his rule
Ehud used deceit to get close to the king and get him alone. He then murdered the king and lied to the servants.
What about this case of child sacrifice?
Please, I want to hear your twisted rationalization for why this was totally okay and totally not god's fault.
man made the vow, not God. how is that His fault?
I am very close to ending this correspondence with you, since you obviously disrespect my beliefs and everything I stand for, insulting me at every opportunity, citethesource.
I have no respect for your beliefs and your willingness to excuse the depraved "morality" within the Bible is disturbing.
If you keep speaking with me, I'm going to keep posting the Bible stories you probably hadn't heard.
Are you okay with the
...Bible story in which god sent two bears to maul 42 boys who dared call Elisha bald-head? How's that for a supremely moral being?
considering you're not a Christian, what would you know about morals? and I am familiar with these stories by the way
I know that murdering boys for extremely minor offenses is horrendous. I know that human sacrifice is abominable. I know that cold-blooded assassination is immoral.
In all, my morality far, far exceeds that of your god.
And that's before mentioning slavery, misogyny, and genocide.
To put it bluntly, were your god to actually exist, I would be by far its moral superior.
so u disapprove of war, abortion, sex slavery, orphans, and sex before marriage? how about caring for the people in Africa and China? but discrimination against Christians is okay. as long as we don't kill anybody. and their martyrs are dumb, right?
Either your trolling skills are being blunted by sleepiness or you're just spouting gibberish for fun. Let me try and make sense of this: I disapprove of war. Your god actively encourages and demands wars. I believe women have the right to bodily
...bodily integrity. And, as your Bible says nothing about abortion, I'll leave this point as a draw. I also condemn slavery in all cases, unlike your god who gives rules for when and how you can enslave people, then demands that slaves over masters.
I don't care if people have sex before marriage. I actually don't think it's any of my business to interfere with private lives of others, unlike your god who sees it as its duty to demand sexual purity.
Yes, we should be doing more for people in developing nations, and here at home. All people have inherent worth and dignity.
Christians aren't being persecuted here in the US or very many other places in the world. To say otherwise is absurd.
"and their martyrs are dumb, right?"
This I couldn't make any sense of. You might know what you mean, but I sure don't.
so murder of innocent children is completely different than murder of innocent babies? Okay, yeah that makes soooo much sense. and wow, the Good who is Love has standards for how his creation experiences love? ridiculous, absurd...
about persecuted Christians, there are innumerable amounts. you either don't care or don't want to know so you can claim ignorance. look up pastor saaed, or the hundreds of books of martyrs. even this conversation...
FYI: The number of persecuted Christians is likely far less than those non-Christian, or heretics Christians, or Christians who don't live up to a standard, who were actively persecuted by Christians.
I wouldn't consider you the most reliable for that statistic
Think of the time frames. Christianity was persecuted for a relatively brief period in its early days. Then, since Constantine Christians have been persecuting other people. So, what, 1700 years of Christianity actively attacking otters?
Cite, why are bothering with this? It's hilarious that you tried to show he inherent ridiculousness of Nicky's statements, but it's obvious he can't/won't see it & you're both in a loop of crazy now. Save your sanity & agree to disagree. :)
My audience isn't necessarily Nicky. :-)
cite, Christians are KILLED every across the ocean for their beliefs and practices. if that's not persecution, idk what is
Not particularly, no.
Look at how people who worshipped felt. Greek god worshippers worshipped because they felt burdened, whereas most Christians choose to be Christians.
If I may, its not like there weren't forced conversions on the part of christians historically, or that most worshippers of greek gods did so because of burden. some did, but some did believe.
Ah so it makes it more credible? Not like the large catholic populations of South America had anything at all due to forced conversions. Or the threat of hell for that matter. C'mon I'm sure you can think of something better than that. lol
Sorry if I came out a bit brash. I respect you Ortho
Most Christians today are Christians because they were born Christians and for no reasons more
You may be born a Christian, but you choose how important your faith is to you. Once you're an adult, you have to make the choice to go to church.
A lot of that choice hinders on a society as a whole
I don't see the divinity of Zeus to be any more credible than the trinity, but I'm also not a christian, or for that matter, very religious.
I love how suddenly this poll becomes way more quiet than my last one
there are only 10 votes so far
For me, I kinda feel you asked and I answered this on the last. Does what I said there make sense?
I was looking more for why would you believe the Christian god is real and Krishna isn't or Thor or Zeus
Shazam lmao why won't you talk to that other user
It's not that I won't talk to him, but I did unfollow. He's not a bad guy, just posts a ton of inanely biased and often insulting polls. Just for tired of them. I mentioned it, didn't change, so I stopped. Don't get me wrong, anyone can post whatever
S/he wants. But just like TV, if I don't like it, I change the channel. Know what I mean?
Oh, and if I CAN add, sorta shitty to pounce on folks like ortho above when he expresses an idea. Engage, don't attack?
Yeah lmao but it sounded like you guys weren't speaking to each other lmao
I think that's the impression I accidentally gave. When I unfollowed I said "and I'm done. See you around dude." Or something like that. He took it that I was ignoring him or something.
MATT - yep.
Y'all caught me out on a technicality lmao. This is more of the question I was looking for.