Show of Hands

I am broken,I my body thinks it knows best.

The bible is not the word of God, it contains it. Jesus is the word of God.

We have freewill and God is all knowing. I can explain this in detail.

Macro evolution was extrapolated past the ability to verify and is also too improbable but that said I have nothing against the idea just waiting on evidence or a timemachine.

I am slow to say "this" is fact instead if there is possibility for another explanation I will say this is what I think based on "that"

The purpose of the universe is apparently to harvest and refine love(and not holliwoods def). Free will, Linear time, effort, sacrifice increases the grade of this treasure.

The most important thing you can do is to identify voices as ally or enemy."you need cheese cake" "Give him all the money in your wallet" "It's God's fault he died" "What would bieber do" Can you identify these voices?

Rightousness(right and wrong)(requirements for right standing) is Preset by God and does not cope with your will or culture.

World views are big for someone of my age but I KNOW few things and for the rest I settle on the most likely of all the options until it is displaced.

I have the same amount of access to perspective as you do.

I think this is hard to spill without specific topics to address because it takes too many comments and it seems ranty to me as I pick random segments of reality to address.

Even worse, though I wish this were an adequate format for discussion of this magnitude, it isn't. I regret trying because twitter sized tidbits are insufficient for philosophy, science of time, and nature of God.

They might serve as chapter headers bur are not large enough to transfer the pretext required to grasp the thought.

Wow

I meant to cancel this, oops.

Very profound cowboy. I expect nothing less from you these days.

That almost seems like sarcasm. Yet it's not. Lol

No Haley, that's called being an American. You should try it.

Lol ok you've convinced me. I'll try it out someday

Stop liking your own comments cowboy, seriously.

I'm liking his comments. Cowboy makes me smile.

Somehow I doubt that Hayley. You're just another ignoramus.

Yes, but you are number 2, Doopy. I'm speaking of the immediately-.0000001-seconds-after-comment-is-posted likes. Those are his.

I think they were me. I'm quick on the trigger finger. If he's liking them, he's #2.

You people at worried about "likes"? Way to keep focused on the real issues.

*are

You're really making me reevaluate my life perspective. I appreciate your insightful comments on my intelligence.

Hayley thinks that being an American is "sarcasm". Why do you think that Hayley?

You essentially said you aren't American if you don't believe in God and if you don't look at the Constitution as a sacred, perfect document that we should never question or expound upon.

I think America is founded on challenging status quo.

You're original statement leaves room for absolutely no understanding of people who think anything different from you. It was so extreme that it really seemed like it must be a joke.

But I'm an ignoramus, so what do I know? :)

*your

Obviously not much about being an American. Glad you can come to grips with that. So why do you hate God and the flag?

Who even cares what it means to be an American? I'm much more interested in what it means to be a decent human being.

I don't hate God. You don't know what I believe lol
And I especially don't hate fabric- that would be a waste of energy :)

Yeah... "Who cares"? Way to be real patriotic there. I thought so.

Well I guess we are done here then.

Thanks for the honest discussion:) you've really convinced me to rethink my approach.

Hayley I discovered the other day that to disagree with cowboy on any point is to open the floodgates of his damnation. He won't listen to a word you say from here on out, instead he'll respond to what he's imagining you said on his odd mind.

I'm never done exposing you people. It's my duty.

I'm just thankful that God is who He is no matter how you (mis)represent Him. I don't need your approval.

Did you read what she wrote, Icy? "Who cares what it means to be an American?" I mean really now! I can't let that kind of ignorance go by without saying something.

That's right I forgot, God only loves patriotic Americans... how did I forget that? <forehead slap>

It's ignorant for me to place the most importance on what it means to be a good person?

Need the applause emoji back for Hayley here. Turns out they were useful after all!

That's all part of being an American, Hayley.

Haha thanks fredd:)

Cowboy, being a good person is a part of being an American?
What are the other parts of being an American that aren't tied to being a good person?

You want to applaud her for not caring about being an American? Interesting...

So let me get this straight; Obama hates God but yet is a Muslim? That makes no sense. If he is a Muslim that hates God, then he is not a Muslim at all.

Yes Hayley.

Cowboy, what if I wasn't an American? If I were Italian, should I be overly concerned with what it means to be an Italian?

@elbrutus. You're in the wrong conversation. We weren't talking about Obama.

And that wasn't a yes or no question.
I was asking what things are part of being an American that aren't just part of being a good person.

Why don't you worry about being an American first? I don't care what Italy does.

I'm really just concerned with being the best person I can be, regardless of where I'm from.

I don't really see why that's such an issue.

Isn't that the definition of nationalism? A condition history has shown to be a problem.

"Cowboy, being a good person is a part of being an American?" That was your question Hayley.

I was simply responding to your original post. I guess I got in the way of your debate so I will step of the way.

There was a second part to my question. That was the part I was more interested in knowing what you thought about. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

It's an issue because you said who's cares about being an American. You really don't see how that would upset Americans?

Above all else, I'm a human. My morals, philosophy, and politics come from the eyes of being a human, not strictly from the eyes of being an American.

I'm sorry that my phrasing offended you.

I think the way a person should act shouldn't derive from their nationality. That's why I said "who cares what it means to be an American?".

Who I am is not predetermined by where I was born.

Wow... Well thank you for being honest. You must be real popular in Alabama! Lol

Do you think you could explain to me why you have a problem with me trying to be a good person?

Depends on if your version of being a good person involves Communism. Which wouldn't go along with our US Constitution.

Being a good person does not involve communism. Lol

Some ignorant Americans actually think that it does.

I've never actually met anyone who was a communist. I do live in Alabama though haha. I think you'd like it down south, cowboy haha

Do you still consider me an ignoramus? Lol

Do you believe that I actually had someone, from NYC, tell me today that they've never met a Communist either? Strange...
Well do you know that President Obama is a Marxist?

Really?
How many communists do you personally know?
And no I wasn't aware of that actually.

You know that the president is Marxist for a fact?

I can vouch for that. He's a wealth redistributionist. Actions speak louder than words, and his actions say "Karl Marx, I want to have your babies!"

Yes I do Hayley. Have you heard of Obama's Childhood Communist mentor, Frank Marshall Davis? Or his racist Marxist professor, Derrick Bell? He wrote about both of them in his own book.

Since you are ignorant of these facts, yes, I'd say you are an ignoramus. Willingly so too.

No I haven't. I'll have to look in to that.

Well then thank you, kind sir, for pointing that out to me. The last thing I want to be is an ignoramus.

Most Obama fans don't Hayley. I really hope you do look into it. Instead of us having this same stupid argument every damn day, like some people on this app that refuse to educate themselves. It's in his own book, for crying out loud...

But I'm already not a fan of Obama. lol I just wasn't aware that he is Marxist.

All the more reason to know the enemy. Please look into it.

2: Truth is absolute, objective and universal, not contingent upon the opinions of any humans, and not threatened by any amount of disagreement or ignorance.

3: Work creates rights to ownership.

4: Free will exists, and God can be contradicted in intention, and in action if permitted.

Free will is an illusion. A completely omnipotent, omniscient God with a divinely oriented plan no one has any hope of violating would not, could not allow it, based on the rules of logic. But even when we come back to reality, it ceases to exist.

Our individual "choices" are simply a product of sensory inputs being converted and transmitted through atom-to-atom, cell-to-cell interactions explained entirely by biological principles, which rely upon the laws of chemistry which rely upon the

laws of physics, which are a byproduct of no ones consciousness and occur randomly and completely independent of any coercion.

"Free will is an illusion. A completely omnipotent, omniscient God with a divinely oriented plan no one has any hope of violating would not, could not allow it, based on the rules of logic."

I submit you're wrong. Make your case.

"Our individual "choices" are simply a product of sensory inputs being converted and transmitted through atom-to-atom, cell-to-cell interactions explained entirely by biological principles"

Prove it.

Neurology still doesn't have a clue where consciousness comes from, and the idea that it is the result of the synapses of our brain is founded in nothing but the assumption of materialism.

Are you suggesting that it's something non-physical? Consciousness is just magic?

That's a false dichotomy there. Either physical or magic?

"Neurology hasn't explained every single detail of consciousness, so for lack of evidence I will believe in something with no evidence at all"

-Paraphrase of Doopy's profound conclusions

What exists outside of the physical, natural realm? The unphysical, supernatural one. (psst hey Doopy we call that magic)

Brains (including humans) are very complex. But there are people who understand them better than any of us here. A google scholar search yields over 100,000 studies dealing with this topic. I would suggest your lack of insight on this topic might

benefit from a review of some of the published research on the topic.

Calling the supernatural "magic" is as great a misnomer as calling quantum mechanics "gambling". Regardless, your claim that free will is an illusion because it's all nerve impulses is unfounded. It's only valid if we start out with materialism given

I've done my research, RJ. There's no evidence to suggest that the brain generates consciousness.

Uh huh....you've done your research. Ok.

The brain doesn't generate consciousness? LMAO. Did your research happen to include a book by William Lane Craig or some other theologian who doesn't even have a grasp on basic biological principles? Is the Watchtower in your Works Cited?

No. You're making the positive claim, though. Prove the brain generates consciousness.

Incidentally, William Lane Craig is a philosopher and a logician. That puts him in valid position to deconstruct a case in any discipline that uses logic.

Fallacious reasoning is fallacious reasoning, even if a biology professor says it to a theologian.

Really though, on the topics listed, I have no idea what is right.

All I know is that we should approach life with as much understanding of other people and of ourselves as possible.

Drew you are on fire recently. Agree 100%

I disagree on religion, and submit that you would not like to hear the stories of a Doopy who did not believe in God.

I'm interested I hearing, doopy.

Well, without a God, a belief in moral law itself is unfounded and irrational. With nothing out there with the might to make right and to lend value to humans, there would be no reason to treat them with any value.

If, then, I did not believe in God, I would not treat people in any way that did not serve me. I would likely have committed many crimes, and never been caught. I would leave a trail of broken people in my wake.

I would treat all things as if they existed to serve me.



And I would be right to do so.

I'm pretty smart, pretty strong, and pretty resourceful, (though not very pretty) and I think big, so some of my handiwork might have made it to your news outlet of choice.

Well I'm very sorry you need belief in God to be a productive member of society. Morality does not objectively exist without a God, you are right. There is no evidence for a god of any kind, so I am willing to accept subjective morality. Even so,

murder (in varying cases) is wrong to many people for different reasons, but that is not why it is unlawful. It is unlawful because it is unethical, meaning it is detrimental to society's advancement, except (we largely accept) in times of necessary

war or self-defense or what have you.

Why? What benefit is there to being a productive member of society, absent a god to give us value? Why shouldn't we be counterproductive members of society?

Regardless of the existence of God, I want humanity to succeed. I love people, and I want to work towards making our world a better place.

Whether or not God exists has nothing to do with how I want to treat people.

But aside from that, most societal rules against being counterproductive to society are there because it also helps us out as individuals.

Per Descartes, I can't be sure you exist, Hayley. I should go with my own impulses. Even if you do exist, absent a god, there's no way to say your preferences are better than mine.

Are you serious Doopy? What benefit is there of being a productive member of society? Try this new thing we call "surviving".

Why would surviving be good, without a deity to give our lives value?

Because it's what biomolecules do. You don't need the existence of a deity for that to be the case. Just like we don't need one to insure that 1+1 will always equal 2.

The behavior of bio molecules doesn't create good, RJ. Crystals grow. Ice melts. Doesn't mean it's good.

Without a god, my biomolecules realize there's nothing wrong with killing the other biomolecules, just for kicks and giggles. So they do.

Concept like 'good' are only relevant in advanced societies.

Or do all morals extend to bacteria as well?

You do realize that the entire religion of Buddhism is an atheist religion, right? Do those people have an ethics problem? Are they unable to live and thrive in a civil society?

That's EXCEPTIONALLY immaterial to the matter at hand.

I'm saying Bhuddists are unable to validate the fact that they live in a civil society. There's no reason to do it without a god. It's a fundamentally illogical worldview.

Their ethics problem is that they're still doing ethics.

I see. So you can either make up or accept whatever god you want to validate your opinion, but they can't validate theirs because it's in opposition to yours (which you assume is the only correct possibility). Did I get this right?

You got it to the the tee, RJ.

No. You got it just about all the way wrong. There is no more or different evidence for value in the universe than for a god. If you do not believe in a god, it is inconsistent to believe in value.

Less value, there is no reason for or against anything, ever.

Yeah...I'm not buying that at all.

Good thread....heading to another poll.

What don't you buy? Make a logical argument.