Congratulations conservatives you've won the war on babies! Now that abortion is illegal how does one differentiate between an abortion and a miscarriage?
I am a conservativish libertarian not really tho. I just am who I am, but I am pro choice not because I actually approve but because the majority of Americans do and my personal misgivings should not be the law of the land
Miscarriage is listed as "Spontaneous Abortion" in the ICD-9 medical diagnosis codes while the procedure we call abortion is listed as "Induced Abortion". That description outlines the difference - miscarriage is spontaneous, abortion is induced.
Same way you do in any other case of suspected murder I suppose. Am I overlooking something?
I didn't know that is it like all over the US or just in your state or?
It didn't actually happen, this is just a scenario.
Oh okay haha I'm like damn I didn't hear anything about that
Same here. I'm thinking is he crazy?
Um, if it was done intentionally or not. Is that not obvious?
How do you know someone's intentions?
The mother is upset.
What if the mother didn't want the kid to begin with but is going to carry it because it's the law and she miscarries?
Then it's a bonus for the woman , who I'd think would be happy , not upset.
As for the medical difference, I have no idea. As a conservative, I'm okay with abortion.
Damn you for not being a cookie cutter! There isn't a difference medically that's my point is that even if they got their way there would be no way to verify who miscarried and who aborted etc. All it would do is cause women to endanger their lives.
Doesn't an abortion procedure cause lacerations or anything like that? Where as a miscarriage just disconnects?
An abortion is just a miscarriage that happens on purpose. So if a mother throws herself down a flight of stairs than she would have aborted the fetus/embryo.
I've heard even decent abortions use sharp instruments to cut the embryo to pieces before sucking them out. Doesn't this cause harm to the woman?
Not as much as throwing yourself down a flight of stairs does. And it's in a doctors office where if there is an emergency than the doctors can correct an emergency.
Obviously if the woman is doing what you want miscarriage, if she's not, like she's having premarital sex, abortion. /s
Btw, I can't remember the state, Missouri or Mississippi, where they proposed a law saying if you had a miscarriage you had to
Report it to the police (so they could investigate?) or face up to 2 years in jail for not reporting. It didn't pass but was seriously considered.
A miscarriage is a natural unexpected occurrence. An abortion is a deliberate killing of the baby.
There are ways to increase the odds of a miscarry. Should miscarriages be investigated to make sure there's no intention?
I don't know that it can be investigated effectively. Also, having personally seen two families go through a miscarriage, I see no reason to add more misery to the grief of their loss by investigating for murder.
If you're gonna pull the "what do you do if a woman aborts herself" card that is irrelevant. The government shouldn't fund abortions, if a woman aborts herself, while I find this risky and kinda stupid, she has the right too
The government doesn't and can't fund abortions. It's illegal.
Hyde Amendment. You're fighting a battle that already happened, which you'd know if you researched any of this.
Not to be off topic, but am I a murderer for all the potential lives I've terminated in the shower since age 13 or so?
Forty hail Mary's for ya!
No, only women's stuff counts as murder, everyone knows that /s
Might have to pass a law to have every miscarriage checked out to make sure it wasn't intentional.
There are 500,000 miscarriages every year in the US, good luck with that.
Hey, I don't agree with It, but if we are dumb enough to pass a no abortion law, how else will they enforce it?
And it was written with heavy sarcasm
Sorry, I should've known better. I apologize for insulting your character :(
I forgot to use my sarcasm font. ;) it's fine, I was wondering if someone was going to agree with my comment so I could do a nice *headdesk*
Lol I laughed at Violence's idea of a personal government escort for the duration of the pregnancy.
Nice question, btw.
Thanks, it occurred to me when I was discussing this with my conservative roman catholic friends who are incredibly naive.
Its spontaneous, natural and random. Big difference
So if a woman throws herself down the stairs and miscarries....?
Not random or natural
And if she falls down the stairs?
how do you know that she didn't trip?
And if she "accidentally" falls down the stairs?
Lol true but witnesses
So if no one sees it happen, it was an accident. Sounds legit.
There aren't people witnessing every staircase 24/7 with the power to tell if it was on purpose
Yes true but I guess we can't know. We just have to install moral values that would never consider doing such a thing
Back when abortion was incredibly regulated women had back alley abortions and many other ways that were less safe. It seems naive to make it illegal and pretend that abortions won't happen.
Then we crack down on those ways to save innocent lives
So then you want government control regulating the female body?
I want to save innocent lives, and if that includes regulating that than sure so be it
Every pregnant woman gets a pro-life, government approved escort for the duration of her pregnancy to ensure there are no accidents.
So you're against government controlling people's lives and you want it out of yours, unless the government is forcing something on people who don't want it because you do
Not at all hypocritical of you
I'm against the government being in peoples lives unless life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is involved
Im not pro-life but that's apples and oranges.
Not really. I know someone who asked if she could cause a miscarriage if she put a pillowcase over her head (gotta protect the pretty) and threw herself down the stairs.
Would you classify that as a normal miscarriage?
Well, if she fell down the stairs accidentally, yes. So the difference is moot.
But she didnt do it accidentally, she did it on purpose. Unless i misunderstood your comment
Yes, but that doesn't matter. The process is the same and the result is the same.
So it's more like Granny Smith vs Red Delicious.
What percent of miscarriages are on purpose vs percent of abortions?
That isn't relevant so long as abortions are legal. It only becomes relevant if they're not. Also, I doubt there is data on it while they are, but clearly some percentage of miscarriages are intentional.
Im catching what you're pitching but to classify miscarriages and abortions in the same group just doesn't make sense.
To say that it's always identifiable which is which is where it goes wrong.
Yeah, they're different, but they can be the same. After all, the woman who throws herself down the staircase doesn't control whether or not her body decides to keep the fetus. Thusly, if her body aborts the fetus it's still a miscarriage.
And if they can be the same, you can't really say which it was, causing the difference between them to become moot.
Right but i would classify that as an extenuating circumstance. The vast majority of miscarriages is not planned and happens naturally.
Are* not planned
But the question is HOW do you differentiate? It's easy when everyone goes to the Dr to have an abortion. If they stop because it's illegal... well ,then you'll see the number of "miscarriages" skyrocket.
Yes, it's like that now because abortion is perfectly legal. If it wasn't it wouldn't.
Ok i see what you mean now.
Miscarriage is spontaneous and unintentional, while abortion is induced intentionally.