Are socialism and communism unamerican?
No, but you can thank McCarthy for the large amount of people that think so.
Nope, just weird.
Once upon a time....not anymore id say.
In a way yes. They do seem to conflict greatly with American values.
Without a doubt. Sad so many dems seem to think otherwise. At least they are admitting it apparently.
The results surprised me too
first of all, no group is unanimous here, so don't paint this all on one party. second, there is a difference between agreeing or disagreeing with something, and saying its american or american
Well, as of now 92% of the dems that voted just said no so that is pretty telling. Both of those use force to take from the people that earned and give to people that did not. That is about as un-American as it gets in my book. You think otherwise??
when 16% of republicans, 76% of independents, and 5% of libertarians also say no, then no, its just another partisan attack, and I'll say this, I don't support those-from either side. and again, supporting or opposing socialism and communism and
answering if they are american or un-American ARE two different things.
So if you don't consider communism or socialism un-American, what would you consider un-American?
I can't speak for them, nor will I.
I was actually asking you specifically unless you are one of the few Democrats that chose yes. Not an attack, seriously just curious...
I said yes in the sense that I don't think either work and I wouldn't want the US turned into a communist state, or a socialist state (actual socialist not what people call socialist but usually is just a political ploy), but the whole american vs
un-American thing sometimes grates me-and I've met others who see it more as nationalism than anything else, though I wouldn't go that far, so in that sense no. so yes and no i guess.
Gotcha, for me I simply looked at what America should be and what the founding fathers intended it to be. In no way would socialism or communism be considered American so it was an easy choice for me and difficult to see why others thought otherwise.
like capitalism works
I support neither, but it would only be unamerican if those who believed in it tried to push it onto others by means not provided for within our constitution. America should be what it, by majority, wants to be within the confines of our constitution
Socialism can't be American because capitalism brought us slavery, which is American?
I'm just going to bookmark this
Actually in a sense didn't mercantilism bring us slavery?
that true, although I've heard some consider mercantilism a form of capitalism, but yeah mercantilism brought it. whether laissez faire had any issue with it staying a practice is another issue. I'll be the first to state I don't know Adam Smith's
personal views on slavery, so I won't guess, not even cynically. Maybe I could go back in time and talk to him when he drank buttered toast from a teapot? (yes, that actually happened, and in an odd way, would be funny to watch)
Neither are, however media seems to have a significant bias supporting the move toward socialism.
The public are then deprived of a fair view of the outcome.
No, I consider socialism to be for everyone. I would call the bastardization of communism that we've observed un-American however.
No. America is about freedom. That includes the freedom to have your own political beliefs.
Because America was founded on protecting life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Hundreds of men died to protect that concept and that's what makes America the free country it is today. Communism is the most unamerican concept there is.
Anything that America does is American
Because the nature of how this country was founded, the ideas, ideals, and principals of personal freedom and choice. The idea that the government is to be limited.
Yeah, wert. Like freedom to own slaves
We can all look at things that we're acceptable at the time and place, but those exceptions are not the rule.
ernest, considering how long humanity has felt it perfectly acceptable to own slaves, doesn't that make us the exception?
It does and I agree, we are exceptional xD
I think you knew I was meaning the fact that we've, both as humanity and as americas, if you count the colonial period, had slavs MUCH longer than we've felt slavery to be wrong.
In a world that still practices slavery, it's important to remember that the US doesn't. Being an indentured worker/slave was part of how the colonies were started, but not how it ended.
true, most of the indentured servants were-as per their contract-freed. the slaves? some were freed, some freed themselves, and most? we all know that answer
Yup, many years, a war and then many more years to correct a human flaw in the perception of certain people being subhuman.
Well, the Constitution has the copyright & contract clauses, & fourth amendment leading to capitalism. Of course, the commerce, coinage, & export clauses show the founders wanting strong government involvement in economy. Socialism? Bite your tongue!
Alright. I hope this helps.
i know they are different. usually people consider them similar enough to count as the same
Yup. I'm certain you know, Matt. I posted that to try to get everyone on the same track. I'm doubtful most will look at it. But, I tried.
Thanks Wert. I'm a socialist, I am not a communist.
no. They're un-capitalist, but not un-american.
I reject the premise that there are values that characterize "Americans".
Conservatives = "don't take God out of pledge of allegiance, leave it as it is, don't alter it, leave it alone, it's American!!"
Pledge of allegiance = wrote by a socialist.
Admittedly you don't have to agree with every one of a person's political views to like something that they wrote.
if a socialist wrote it, then its obviously part of our history and who we are, whether people want to admit or not.
Just because someone wrote something doesn't mean their political beliefs reflect it.
I think you guys are missing the point.
Abolitionist I think that's a bit of a stretch to say - the quote is part of our history, but the guy isn't, and neither are his political beliefs (as is demonstrated by the fact that few people know who wrote it).
It's even funnier that he was a Christian Socialist, and didn't even include "under god".
Who is he not part of our history?
Bean is pretty much saying if you're only an American if she agrees with you.
Not really... The point I'm making is that appreciating a single quote doesn't mean you appreciate a person, and that just bc the quote is part of our history doesn't necessarily mean the person is. I'm not extrapolating beyond this situation.
bean, maybe I'm confusing you and someone else, but when I debated the lord, liar, or lunatic/ mad, bad, or god trilemma, I was told why would should I listen to jesus at all if i didn't think he was god/divine/lord. if it wasn't you Im sorry, but
would you say the same there?
Can't say I followed that sentence or how it's relevant, sorry :( But no, I don't think that was me.
sorry, i know its a bit off topic. if it wasn't you don't worry about it, but basically if you have to either agree jesus is god then to think anything he said was true but you don't have to believe everything the writer of the pledge did to like on
e thing he did.... but since it wasn't you, nm
But the pledge does reflect the statist undertones often found in socialist rhetoric.
Well, a claim that you're God is a little different (and more extreme) than being a socialist, haha.
that doesn't change the fact that not having the same answer to both is intellectually dishonest and picking and choosing where to hold certain standards
I wish more people would take the time to look up socialism. It's pretty awesome, and NOT communism. :(
But socialism generally leads to communism.
No. In fact, there are many socialistic countries of which have not sought communism. There are actually very few communist countries.
Read a bit of Hayek. Any sort of planning is always a problem, bc no 3rd party planner (politician) can know the production and markets he's dealing with well enough unless he's the producer.
No country is truly socialistic though
bean, I can't speak for wert, but I have read hayek. i just don't think he is correct.
Why? Do you think a politician can know a market, demand, means of production, and everything else, well enough to make decisions concerning it?
not completely, but I also don't believe a market left to its own devices works out in the long run very well either. producers aren't perfect either. no one is, nor is the market. not even close, but at least some people have some incentive to try
SOMETHING, by jove
Based on some of the comments, I think some people have very different ideas about what these really are.
Freedom, individuality, and innovation are what America is all about. Socialism and especially communism try their best to get rid of these.
Both, but especially socialism, are a big part of our history. And, you know, unions and whatnot.
I'm going to guess you're the red vote from washington then?
Yes, I voted no. They are not unAmerican, they are part of who we are.
It is absolutely the opposite of what this great country was founded on.
I think so. Socialism at least. Free enterprise is a very American concept. Socialism doesn't really allow for that.
In this sense, American: of, relating to, or characteristic of the United States or its inhabitant.
Basically, can you say "YEEEE HAAAAH" after it, and it still sounds good.
Go down that road and invite the global or new world order.
Last I checked, it was the neo-cons that were taking us in the direction of a new world order.
Well, I guess I'd say they are unamerican then.
Yes, this country was built on the back of economic freedom and guaranteed liberties. Socialism can be pushed, but definitely not communism!
So socialism isn't inherently unamerican communism is definitely unamerican?
Well communism is government control, which we outlined to prevent, socialism is people control in which can to some extent be seen and done. But communism and any other totalitarian gov system is unamerican.
America is a lot more socialist than I think many care to admit, and always has been. Socialism isn't necessarily bad.
It seems if they were UnAmerican then we wouldn't recite a pledge of allegiance wrote by a socialist.
Shh. No one likes to be reminded of that :)
Wasn't woody Guthrie, the writer of this land is your land, a communist?
Associated with, but not a member of, Communist groups.
thats close enough for most people, wouldn't you say?
It might score in horseshoes, yes.
considering people like to paint democrats as communists and obama as hilted or stalin, anything at all seems to count