Christians: do you think God performs physical miracles in the world today?
you people need to get a better grip of reality and stop taking those drugs
I meant kool aid
There is no God. ..20 kids in Newtown didnt did for a great being they were murderes by a kid who's mom needed better mental health care aka Obama care
My kids being born... Does that count?
i definitely think so.
There are to many amazing things that cant be explained for miracles not to exist.
It's cool to think that there was no "nature" or "natural laws" before the Big Bang/creation. Making something out of nothing defies "natural law" therefore it's a miracle anything's here at all!
I do not think they do I know they do!!
Well the Red sox won the series in 06 so I have to say yes.
We've seen people come back to life that should be a vegetable but they are fine now. Most of the time if not all the time miracles are all sparked from the beginning of time He knows from when the first strings or particles were flicked into motion
What to align when so today the miracle is just good timing. He's not breaking natural laws just beating the odds with those laws.
what would you consider breaking natural laws?
There are many contexts for natural laws but in this statement I mean God is hands off after the initial flick. There's nothing stopping Him from making additional flicks but I doubt He needs to make corrections. Time is very perspective contexted.
so, to understand your position, you think in the beginning of time he ordained it and so we see the result now?
Say you build a table. It is slanted and you have added notches to the table so that the marble goes in the cup at the end of the table. You let it go and then the only natural law is gravity as it is the constant and the table is time. The reason...
He has to put notches are in response to freewill in which people can do as they please. They can tel God to not include them in His plan for the cup and go they're own way. When they do this they steer the marble off course for them personally.
Some realize they are bad drivers and again ask God to take the wheel which he know when that would be so thats why he made the notch for right then.
This is how freewill and foreknowledge coexist.
sure, but your analogy seems to forget the power of prayer. there are several instances in Bible where God changes his mind. carved notches don't allow for this. his character doesn't change, but his decisions can. also, God is not limited by time
Prayer is us inviting him to drive but this action is only real-time on our end, He knew when we would ask and has set up the people and events in advance to get you back on course and time it as a response to prayer so we can learn from experiences.
He does not change His mind. He knows everything and can't be wrong. Can you share an example?
There is a lot of pretext that has to be loaded for the whole universe to click. Such as the bible is not the word of God though precious, Jesus is the word of God, as one would would bring the will and intent of a king to a far away land.
Moses had to convince God but to destroy his people and start over with Moses' family. another instance is Abraham speaking about Sodom and Gomorrah with Jesus, and moving the number of godly people down. each time a new agreement is reached
He shows us what God is really like, what He stands for and His character. There is a critical shift of understanding from the old testament to the new though we still make mistakes, some of the old testament mistakes were cleared up by testing...
I would see a better analogy as this: you come to a fork in the road. predestination would say God blocked off one so you take the other. I would say both have futures for you in store and both are open and God knows which way you'll go
...action authorship by comparing the action with the know known author. WWJD now read the old testament and when a human records history from a human perspective blaming god for this or that ask WWJD if it doesn't match it doesn't match.
I'm finding it difficult to follow your train of thought, but I'm interested in hearing it. would you mind boiling it down to one or two simple sentences? I want to make sure I thoroughly understand your opinion before I respond in like
I'll take the Abraham example, think back to eden when God ask "where are you?" and then "what did you do?" God knew these answers but asked for the sake of us. Again with sodom Abraham feels like he is actually convincing God,but instead God who...
... invented the man's brain is teaching him in an effective method. Asking questions, walking through each scenarios etc.
Thats difficult because 1 I am not good with teaching though I'm happy to share and 2 I am in essence explaining the universe and God. It sounded like u r reading the bible as if everything that is said about God was by God. We have to use Jesus to..
Filter out the humans so we can get an accurate picture of God. Once we do we learn enough about God to accurately speculate impossibilities that we can illuminate as possible universe models because it lies outside God's profile.
exodus 32:13-14 is the Moses reference. God was not pretending to change his mind
In my mind the concept is all laid out at once on a virtual desk and each portion spelled out in detail and thats how I can best realize it but the more you simplify it the less accurate and more complicated it gets due to english having alternates.
I believe the scriptures were and are God breathed and God inspired. I don't think he would allow his church and bride to be raised and living out a false or outdated instruction manual.
I understand it is difficult to simplify. it's also difficult to carry on three branches of this conversation at the same time haha. I do enjoy it though
Further God does not kill . WHAT???? Yep though from his perspective it would be as morally inert as moving a puppy from one cardboard box to another but in principle He does not. Countless people blame Him for it either because they cannot see...
...God physically with their eyes or they mimic the theology of someone else who had the same limitation.
okay there I strongly disagree. have you read exodus at all? God kills plenty of people. "and the Lord struck him down" opening holes in the ground, ordering the slaughter of many peoples, killing a priest for touching the Ark as it fell, etc.
Like I said before the bible is precious and the Gospels are a treasure as it lets us not through out the rest of the bible because it gives us a key or lens in which we can make up for human perspective by applying Jesus(God's perspective.
"and the Lord struck him down" opening holes in the ground, ordering the slaughter of many peoples, killing a priest for touching the Ark as it fell, etc
Who said this?
never does Jesus contradict the scriptures. he came to fulfill them, but change. I don't think God plants people in front of crazy drivers to get run over, but if you misrepresent him or speak blasphemy against his name, I wouldn't be surprised
those are things that happen in the old testament. read the times of wandering in the desert and the first few kings of Israel and the prophets of the time. God does kill people. the bible is quite a violent book
If someone stole from someone else then got hit by lightning and died a week later who did it? If you say God you would be doing the same as many people in the bible.
People in the bible blame God for the death of people but that does not mean God did it. Jesus is the only source that has the adequate perspective of God and He does not Kill but instead loved enemies and dissed the sword and showed how graceful.
I don't want this conversation to end so i will pick it up tomorrow but I need sleep.
haha I did the same no worries. I would say the person who stole brought it upon themselves, for sure, but it was God, not a human, who commissioned the lighting. Jesus does love his enemies, but on judgment day God will send his to an eternal death
"And the anger of the LORD burned against Uzzah, and God struck him down there for his irreverence; and he died there by the ark of God." -2 Samuel 6:7
"And the anger of the LORD burned against Uzzah..." Who said this?
Lightning is caused charges that build up via moving water particles and then discharge when they can find a path to ground. This is one of many results of the fall, no the world is broken and unbalanced and so it storms as a repair function.
Samuel, prophet of God, said it. The BIBLE is God's word. He inspired it. What about the flood? That killed almost all humanity. Did God not send it for that very purpose? He was purging His creation of sin and evil.
No God did not send the flood that is another result of the broken world since sin(via the fall) corrupted the perfect order God created and called good. Samuel the prophet was human. God inspired me to do things but I am not perfect either.
When Job was blaming God for everything and trying to reason out why He would do these things, God put Him in his place humbling Him by giving examples of how little job understood.
yes, as a really of sin, God sent the flood. the bible is very clear about that
The bible tells us that a man clearly thoughtGod sent the flood.We can speculate what actually happened with out certainty but we can rule out for sure God's guilt.
Because Jesus' character does not allow for that.
you keep going back to Jesus's character. do you have biblical support for that? because we get all that information from men as well. it sounds like you question the validity of God's word
Jesus is God's word and His actions are depicted in4gospels that validate each other.Plus there are many proofs in the text to validate it as authentically describing a few years of Jesus life death and resurrection too proving He was who He claimed
I've seen about 10 in person so of course
Every time I get up in the morning.
There is a lot.of personal perception that goes on when it comes to what a person thinks is a miracle. by definition a miracle is just something that is beyond our understanding.
It happens to be a big flaw in society today that when someone or a group of people don't understand something the dismiss it or try to discredit it.
I think He COULD, but I don't think He does. At least not since over 1,900 years ago.
really? no need? I would say there's even more need for miracles in today's world
Then why don't we see any? Why aren't they as obvious as they were to the people of the Bible? I think Jesus was the last intervention in the Universe that God probably felt he needed.
Or maybe you have not seen any cause you don't know how to see them. I myself m am living proof of miracles in the world today. And for me to deny that would be as if I am denying God himself.
we do see them. all the time. have you ever seen a miracle documentary? they go to Africa and film crazy stuff!!! prophetic conferences too. there are no shortages of miracles out there, I promise
Life, in all of it's infinite glory is a miracle of God no doubt!
Yes! The Eucharist is a miracle that happens every day!
I am on the edge; I don't know if I can believe god affects the world but then believe that he couldn't stop things like 9/11
"And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be and unchangeable Being?"
Oh yes. All the time! (:
Some of us are able to recognize what others can't.
3 years ago when my daughter was born.
He does through our hands.
My daughter had serious brain cysts when she was born where her brain had died before she was born. The neonatologist said expect delays, motor impairment and seizures. We prayed she would be okay. We did therapy to help with the expected delays.
We went in at one year to check the cysts that the neurologist said would be there all her life. They were gone! The pediatric neurologist said she'd never seen that before.
Without a doubt.
Great Q. Yes. But by nature, they are very rare.
The reality that life exists at all is a miracle. A slight shift in global positioning or countless other factors and life would not be found.
Why is SOH singling out Christians?
Only those people whose profile indicates Christianity are receiving this poll. It's directed at Christians because it wouldn't be a reasonable question asked elsewhere and because the targeting keeps out the hater riffraff.
Oh, very good. I didn't realize SOH was doing that. Thanks :)
I said no, because my understanding of a miracle is something that completely defies natural & physical laws. My understanding of NT scripture is that miracles ended with the apostles' generation.
That said, I do FULLY believe that God can &
sometimes does intercede in our lives to make the unlikely or improbably happen. I can provide several examples of this, but I do not call them miracles in a Biblical sense.
I appreciate your answer. Providence is god working in the world, but it isn't miraculous :)
I believe in a living prophet and apostles today. Miracles happen all the time, but personally I've never been on the receiving end. My dad can walk after being told he never could, sure he has a limp...but he can walk and run just as well.
I wasn't trying to sound contentious or argumentative, that's just my personal belief and I wanted to voice it.
would you call the stretching of a leg defying natural laws? how about broken bones healed? cancer gone? I can legitimately say I have witnessed miracles. THEY HAPPEN, and they'll blow up your world.
My mom learned to walk again after being told that she would never walk again. We were also told that she wouldn't live to leave the hospital, but she did & lived for three years afterward. I don't think it was miraculous, because it did not defy the
laws of nature, but it did defy the medical odds. I believe that God's providence was involved, but that is different from miracles.
I literally witnessed someone's leg stretch several inches about 2 weeks ago. that defies all medical standards; you wouldn't agree?
Foxy - I'm not trying to be contentious or argumentative, but I would like to learn about your faith. What is the scriptural basis of your belief in a living prophet & living apostles? If it isn't scriptural, what is the basis?
if I may, we are called as Christians to be Jesus's disciples. did he not say his disciples would perform greater signs and wellness than he did. he never says "you 12 will..."
Nicky, that is interesting. I didn't read your first comment before I posted. I was responding to Foxy. I would like to hear more, like context, setting, why it needed stretching, etc.
absolutely- at my pastor's house, a man had back problems and pastor had a revelation that the legs as well as compressed vertebrae were contributing. I can't speak for vertebrae, but I watched the leg grow. the man had no pain he had suffered b4
I'd have to look up scriptural references, but I believe after a time the gospel was lost/unorganized and God waited for the right time to restore it. Joseph Smith prayed about which church to join and he was told none.
The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. Lds.org will help answer questions that would just take up space in this forum.
But I also believe there is some truth in every belief system.
Foxy, No offense, but I am not subject to the Book of Mormon, but I do now understand your comments. Thank you for explaining.
Nicky, no offense, but I have seen similar in a chiropractor's office.
You are both entitled to your beliefs, but you have not convinced me. I think it is best for all of us to walk away.
we sat and prayed and it stretched. no medication, no tricks. just miracles. I don't desire or need to convince anyone, that's like defending a lion. God is not limited to the past and doesn't change. he used miracles before, and he still does.
Nicky, if you weren't trying to convince me, then why comment on my comment?
I typically like knowing when contradictory information to my beliefs is out there and comparing the evidence. convincing and providing information from a different perspective are different things
besides the fact it is a cool, true, godly story, which this world needs more of
I saw a leg grow on Dr. Oz one day without pain medicine, too. It was about relaxing a compressed muscle or nerve. It was done with some stretching & massaging I believe.
could you please send me the link? Also, I don't remember God ever being too cool to use people as well. my point is he doesn't have to, and doesn't always, even today
I don't mind you providing information, but if you think I could look at the results & not know there are people with differing perspectives, then you must think I am blind.
Nicky, I don't recall the exact title of the procedure & I didn't save it anywhere, because I wasn't planning to use it. I did a quick search on Dr. Oz's site, but he does so many segments on back pain that it didn't find it immediately.
My point is that it didn't break natural law, so while it was amazing & impressive, it was not a miracle in the Biblical sense.
Here is some audio explaining the difference between miracles & providence. www.housetohouse.com/MediaPlayer.aspx?media=6070
please don't misinterpret my intentions. just adding to the conversation and sharing my beliefs, like everyone else. I'm sure you're a very intelligent person, but I feel compelled to at least contribute to your awareness of the reality
Here's more info on Biblical miracles. www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1399
This is about the providence of God. www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/Study-of-Providence.pdf
thank you for the sources. I would encourage you to research the other perspective as well. it will change your life
I believe miracles occur in the lives of those who have & exercise faith in God & Christ. Where there is no faith, there will be no miracles. Same pattern during the life of Christ. Yes, miracles occur today. Spoken little of because they are sacred.
Miracles are not intended to "prove" to the non-believer; to those who have not faith. Miracles are a blessing given to those who believe & have faith in Christ. If there are no miracles, it is because there is no faith in Christ.
The book of Mormon is just a book, but it testifies of Christ in the same way the Bible does. Christ loves everyone so why would he only visit the Jews after the resurrection?
foxy, not sure who you're addressing, but you might not like my answer
persuader, I'm afraid I'd disagree. there are many who doubt God and his power but he uses miracles to bring them in. I know that isn't the sole or even main purpose, but it does happen
nickyreads, yes, the priests of Baal along with the armies of pharaoh certainly witnesses miracles. Didn't turn out too well for them. The same pattern was exhibited by Christ. Those who have faith, or at least desired to believe, often were blessed.
foxycheese202, yes, I have also found the Book of Mormon to be true. It is a second witness with the Bible that testifies of the living Christ. It testifies that the Bible is true. One may come to know for themselves by honest reading & prayer to God
The point of miracles in the Bible was to prove God, His power, His deity, etc. If miracles still occur, why would they now have a different purpose?
Foxy, I am trying to be respectful of your beliefs. You would not like my response, if I go down this road with you.
Yes, miracles have been observed by faithful & faithless, & they do testify of God. However, generally you will find that miracles were performed upon those who believed in Christ. The gift to perform miracles is a gift of the Spirit. 1Cor. 12:7-11
Okay. If you think I'm wrong it's not disrespectful. And Christ loves us all no matter what! So we can agree on that and disagree fundamentally.
Therefore, it is by faith that miracles are wrot. It is by faith in Christ that the gifts of the Spirit can be obtained to work His will in blessing the lives of others; those with great faith, weak faith, or simply a desire to believe.
God is a God of miracles. He has a prophet and 12 apostles on the earth today. The Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ. His church has been restored to the earth. Ask HIM if it's true. That's all you can do.
Foxy, my apologies, but others are not dropping the subject.
The Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible. If they were both inspired by God, this would not be true.
BamaGirl, others have simply shared their feelings & beliefs. It is not intended to be threatening to you nor to anyone. Please note that that which has been said testifies of the Christ & of the truthfulness of the Bible, of his love & miracles.
Persuader, all due respect, but y'all chose to comment on MY comment to tell me that I am wrong per your beliefs. If you simply wanted to express your opinion, you could have just created your own comment. I have done my best to respect your opinions
If you desire to discover truth, it would be well for one to rely less upon the puny arm of man, & to ask God. You may consider reading the Book of Mormon yourself, in the Spirit of prayer.
but you continue to refuse to respect mine. Also, no one has given me scriptures to back up your beliefs other than the Book of Mormon which I don't believe is part of God's Word.
I have read the Book of Mormon. I know God, Jesus, & the Holy Spirit. Thank you. I pray that you will open your heart & mind.
BamaGirl, It was not my intention to offend you. It seemed as though a discussion was occurring regarding miracles & ones beliefs concerning miracles.We did not criticize your beliefs. But thank you for the source material.I have heard it all before.
I know the truth of God's Word.
I commented because I like what you have to say and wanted to talk to you specifically.
In the spirit of respect & dialogue, I did provide one scriptural reference. If you would like additional scriptural references on any particular topic, I would be happy to share them, if that is something that you desire.
It was never a discussion. I stated my beliefs & others told me theirs & implied that mine were wrong. I have heard all this before, too.
I don't believe you are wrong. You may be doing exactly what God wants you to be doing and that's right for you. I'm not preaching moral relativity here, just that God works in people in different ways. I didn't mean to offend and make you feel
attacked or that you are wrong. Don't care if others believe you are wrong or you will get bogged down by negativity. I just wanted to spread the joy I find in my gospel. Maybe one day I'll make someone happier bringing them closer to God.
And I see you comment on a lot of things and I like you. So don't fret or feel threatened. I think all Christians should, despite fundamental differences, focus on what we do agree on and find joy in doing good in this world.
guys, plain and simple, miracles happened in the past. God doesn't change, so it stands to reason they still happen, esp with eye witnesses. foxy, both Bible and book of Mormon cannot be true. I pray God reveals this to you himself.
Persuader, yes, miracles were a work of the Spirit, but later in the passage, it says they will cease. (1Cor 13:8-10)
persuader, you're preaching a "whatever works for you" policy, which is unbiblical. bamagirl, again, no offense. comments are meant to be commented on as discussion. this isn't for arguing, it's for presenting different ideas with support, people.
I've never heard those specific disagreements to the book of Mormon, but I'm typically skeptical since mormonism makes most religions angry. And I found a few ways to argue the points, but that's because I don't believe them.
1 Corinthians 13:8 is in context of parts versus whole. not completeness in other words, in chapter of love. God knows ultimate plan, we don't. spiritual gifts don't cease
Foxy, I like you, too & we have agreed on other things in the past which was why I tried to keep this cordial. I appreciate your concern & your heart.
if you are willing to believe them, historian or not, you will. I don't so my faith stands. Fortunately I have prayed about the Bible and the book of Mormon. I feel them both to be true.
Thank you bama. Whether we're all wrong or right. Good is of God, and I think with that simple stance we can grow closer to him. I can't believe he'd be loving enough for the atonement, then condemn us over details.
y'all, feeling pretty much like everyone is set on disagreeing. in God's love I pray all of you will understand his true heart and love for you. please, I beg you, don't close your eyes to the wonders he has in store for you. with that, good night
But! I do kinda agree about the natural laws thing you're leaning towards. Nothing unnatural helped my father walk. In fact, I wonder if God is subject to laws himself and he just knows more about the science of things than we do
so where we see a miracle of seas parting that defies laws of basic physics, he sees a way to move elements that we can't fathom yet. lol dun dun DUN!
BamaGirl, again, I am sorry if my comments placed you in a position of feeling attacked or diminished. That was not my intention. I agree with you regarding miracles often defying natural law, at least as I understand them.
Good night y'all. May The Lord bless you.
We absolutely believe because my husband cancer was much worse than we thought and the the surgery went better than even the Dr. thought and has no complications from radiation. Miracles happen all the time. We are proof of that. Thank you Jesus.
God performs physical miracles everyday, and Democrats demand the right to Abort them.
amen to that! unfortunately, it isn't just a political opinion
Yes, God acts through people and nature to bring about highly improbable outcomes.
By all accounts, I should either not be alive or at least brain damaged after an overdose years ago. My blood sugar dropped to 14, I stopped breathing, and the doctor said it was as if I was underwater for 40 minutes.
I came out of it unharmed and went to law school months later.
Sounds like a miracle to me!
Yes. I think those who say No believe in a God that changes.
Any "Christian" who doubts this must not be much of a Christian
God actually put money in my wallet one night. I was running low on funds and had to in go to an out of town Dr appt the next day. I counted the money in my wallet three times that night. There was exactly $100. I put $40 in gas. The next
morning I had $103. There should have been $60. I had asked my husband for $20 so I figured he just left extra until I found the $20 bill he left me. I came home that day with just the amount of money I needed to get gas to go to my mom's house
the next day which would take me to payday. I'm convince God gave me that money because who else would have put it there and how would they have know the exact amount I needed???
I like that.
That's awesome! We had something kinda like that but found money I forgot I hid.
Anyone who answered "no" must not have children.
Probably not. But, they shouldn't need a kid to realize that they have been born and that is truly a miracle!
Never doubt the power of God.
I was healed of hives the doctors couldn't explain, just treat. After 6 months on prednisone, I went up for prayer at church and after, felt I should stop taking it. Never took it again - no hives, no side effects of stopping suddenly.
I go to school with the younger brother of Joel. This is a legitimate story.
Faith is "being certain of that which is not seen". Miracles ARE seen. Bodies are healed, doctors are stumped, people are saved, and it's by the Hand of God.
GOD is so good, he even provides the faith when we find him and know him. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of GOD.