Show of HandsShow of Hands

Show Of Hands February 2nd, 2014 3:49pm

Do you think that women make less than men on average due to workplace discrimination, or due to choices to pursue different careers?

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tractorman Oklahoma
02/04/14 12:55 pm

I've found the hardest thing to do in discussions of this kind is to convince White Males of the privilege they have in society. Many WM work hard, study hard, achieve but in the end if they have success it is partially due to their privilege. Sorry

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TheLastAmerican fairfax
02/08/14 3:03 pm

I find the hardest thing to do is get lazy assholes like you to realize how useless you are to is. The only privilege I have is the fact that everyone else sucks so much. We(white males) carry society on our backs...

Laurie2133 Rural Southwest
02/03/14 10:35 pm

As a female police officer, I made the same amount as the men. Now granted, in my dept there was great disparity in the number of female admin, only one.

jenkp223 Being a mommy
02/03/14 10:14 pm

I majored in education, which is a field dominated by women. My husband majored in engineering, dominated by men. Which major will make you more money? Therefore, which gender will dominate those higher-paying jobs?

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ontargetlisa
02/03/14 9:51 pm

I worked for a few months in the 80's for a jewelry chain that paid men higher commission rates than women, because "men have a family to support." I was top salesperson, but one I learned about the difference, I quit. Never had the issue since.

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bnnt Los Angeles
02/03/14 7:43 pm

If that were the case, I would hire all women and save money.

But it doesn't work that way people.

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house ohio
02/03/14 6:43 pm

liberals are not the smartest crayons in the shed.

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azglockman az
02/03/14 8:29 pm

Crayon in the shed?

captrob57 long beach
02/03/14 11:15 pm

You mean sharpest tool in the box? ;)

theNobamist Silicon Valley
02/03/14 3:33 pm

Any studies on straight v gay salaries?

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BenardSwartz
02/04/14 5:42 am

All my gay friends are rich.

theNobamist Silicon Valley
02/03/14 3:17 pm

In high tech, women get paid more than men for the same job. Everyone's desperate to hire them.

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Wizzobutter
02/03/14 2:27 pm

I started as an bookkeeper in 1981 at $200 a week. A woman started the same time as me. She also made $200 a week. She left in 1982, me in 2012. I looked her up on Facebook recently and was surprised she did not have a college degree like I did.

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eve
02/03/14 9:31 am

Income inequality is a political tool to make people envious of others. Liberal emotional tactics. People are hired based on their experience and knowledge, and paid that way, as it should be.

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tractorman Oklahoma
02/03/14 4:07 pm

Look at the facts which dispute your claim. What facts beyond all these anecdotal incidents posted on this post do you have to support your contention?

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 8:11 am

"The study?s most embarrassing finding showed that a group of biology, chemistry, and physics professors favored a male job candidate ?John? over a female ?Jennifer? with identical qualifications for a fictitious science lab manager position."

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 8:11 am

"We are not suggesting that these biases are intentional or stem from a conscious desire to impede the progress of women in science"

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 8:12 am

"the behavior reflects repeated exposure to pervasive cultural stereotypes that cause subtle gender biases to linger in even the most egalitarian individuals despite decreases in overt sexism over the past few decades"

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 8:14 am

Here's the problem with the whole discussion here, and elsewhere, about this topic: one side assumes that it's being accused of overt sexism and gets defensive. The catch with the gender gap is its subtle, unconscious, but pervasive, discrimination.

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 8:55 am

Yup, exactly. So much cognitive dissonance going on. So many people terrified of having to admit that a problem exists. When you deny the problem, especially in the face of clear evidence it exists, you become part of the problem.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
02/03/14 2:33 pm

Of course, in the interest of unbiased science, one should do a study to ascertain whether women and men perform identically at the job in question...

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 3:44 pm

This study relates purely to hiring practices, therefore performance is controlled for.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
02/03/14 3:47 pm

No it isn't. It's possible that a man or a woman would actually be better at the job than an equally-qualified counterpart of the opposite sex.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
02/03/14 3:48 pm

Sex may in and of itself BE a qualification.

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 5:07 pm

Clearly you didn't read the article and are making unfounded and unsupportable adoptions.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
02/03/14 5:34 pm

"The study?s most embarrassing finding showed that a group of biology, chemistry, and physics professors favored a male job candidate ?John? over a female ?Jennifer? with identical qualifications for a fictitious science lab manager position."

Doopy Remedial Americanism
02/03/14 5:37 pm

This presupposes the unproven premise that masculinity and femininity are equal qualifications. Politically, it may be conducive to say they are, but reality and nature prove to be more discriminatory, so the assumption is not a safe one.

Congressman Louisiana
02/03/14 6:49 am

While I agree that there is still discrimination throughout the workplaces of America, at the same time don't waste six years in school for a Master's Degree in Early 14th Century Romanian Women Studies of musical Influence and Basket Weaving

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Congressman Louisiana
02/03/14 6:50 am

and expect to get any job you want at an unreasonable starting pay for said job with said degree. Women should be paid for their level of education, work place seniority, and skills. Same as men. It is that simple.

mark1
02/03/14 6:52 am

I knew there was something we agreed on. Gotta say I'm surprised and gratified by the quality of discussion on this question.

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 8:17 am

Here's the thing, no one is expecting that to pay equal to an electrical engineering degree, what they are expecting is that two people with electrical engineering degrees would earn comparable wages for similar experience and training

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 8:53 am

Straw man, Congressman.

Congressman Louisiana
02/03/14 9:22 am

I agree with you Comrade, that's how it should be. But there are people (regardless of gender) who obtain the most useless degrees imaginable to feel intellectually superior and can't understand why no one will hire them. It's not a straw man.

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 9:53 am

The straw man is making that a gender issue.

alval California
02/03/14 6:42 am

Old stereo types such as they will leave the company to have a family also contribute.

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polster2 US
02/03/14 6:05 am

In the same job position at the same company women often make less than men. If that's not blatant discrimination, I don't know what is.

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Alkan
02/03/14 10:23 am

Because sometimes men are better at those jobs. It's not discrimination, it's facts. I can build a house faster than a woman. Why pay me the same?

polster2 US
02/03/14 10:48 am

That's a pretty sexist assumption. Besides, speed I would rather have a job done well than done quickly.

Alkan
02/03/14 11:49 am

It's not sexist, it's just the way our bodies are. I can carry a piece of wood around more easily and put it down properly faster. Both sexes might be as careful when building a house, but id rather have a random man, in this case, than a random wman

Alkan
02/03/14 11:50 am

Just as you'd probably rather have a woman take care of your kid in preschool over a man. We just have different skills.

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 12:57 pm

I can see your argument with the house (true though it's not what the discussion is about), but why would a man be an inferior preschool teacher?

alval California
02/03/14 1:06 pm

Your arguments are case by case because I know plenty of women that can hold their own. As a stay at home father working on my MBA, I am fine with a male pre-school teacher. But I understand both points in general.

Klensken phx
02/02/14 11:48 pm

My major requires a great deal of math, and all of my classes have been complete sausage fests. Women just aren't as likely to go for more lucrative degrees. Yeah there's more to it, but education choices are a major determinant of future earnings.

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lindyj23
02/03/14 5:18 am

Proud to have a daughter majoring in physics and getting top grades. :)

tractorman Oklahoma
02/03/14 6:51 am

Stereotypes are alive and well on this post!

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 8:02 am

problem is, the wage difference shows up in people with the same qualifications.

Klensken phx
02/03/14 1:46 pm

Stereotype my ass. I didn't say all women avoid STEM majors. Most do though, and that's a measurable statistic.

theNobamist Silicon Valley
02/03/14 3:21 pm

Physics. LOL. 4 years college; 8 years grad school for a Phd and ten years of post-doc work before finding a job.
Don't let your daughter throw the best years of her life away on that.

debob texas
02/02/14 10:27 pm

Single women without family responsibility are on par w/ men. I want flexibility because for me my kids and husband trump everything else.

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carpnta Oregon
02/02/14 9:51 pm

The discrepancy may not happen intentionally in the job offer, but over time when male executives talk to and network with other men, invite them to play golf, attend sports games or lunch, and the men develop relationships the women are not able to.

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htcbump Florida
02/02/14 8:50 pm

I read a lengthy study on this. There is discrimination but it is like the fifth factor. Other factors included hours worked per day, majors selected in college, studies after employment and per cent of time working v. Employed.

htcbump Florida
02/02/14 8:52 pm

Also less job mobility or their job is secondary to hubby's move. Add it all up and yes it comes in at 77%.

htcbump Florida
02/02/14 8:57 pm

I forgot one from the Yale study: men are often better negotiators for pay.

johninsandiego San Diego CA
02/02/14 8:44 pm

My place of employment grants both sick leave and annual leave. There is also a program where annual leave can be donated to other employees that gave used all there sick leave due to prolonged illness. Each month employees receive an email that

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johninsandiego San Diego CA
02/02/14 8:48 pm

lists everyone asking for leave donations. Without fail, women outnumber men by am average of 8 to 1. Not being judgmental, but More time away from work (maternity leave covered separately) may just be one factor in wage difference between sexes.

think4yourself Not a safe space
02/02/14 7:16 pm

Interesting thing is these politicians that cry sexism also pay women less. Pelosi and the obama White House pay women staffers less.

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theNobamist Silicon Valley
02/03/14 3:23 pm

Don't you know it's insensitive to confuse the liberal mind with reality based facts?

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/02/14 6:55 pm

If I fired 20 male employees and hired 20 female employees saving 20% who is victimized?

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Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/02/14 7:24 pm

You could argue the fired guys.
Perhaps the greedy company that gave up experience to save a few bucks.
If the women got jobs they were happy to have at a pay rate that was acceptable then I don't see them as victims. They didn't have to take d/job

theNobamist Silicon Valley
02/03/14 3:24 pm

That's why men disproportionately lost more jobs in the Great Recession.

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/02/14 6:55 pm

If I fired 20 male employees and hired 20 female employees saving 20% who is victimized?

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lucky12
02/02/14 5:14 pm

While I agree the .77/1 statistic is inaccurate, when you look at the average salary in a given profession, say, a doctor or engineer, there is consistently a wage gap between men and women that varies from around a .05-.25 difference for every dolla

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think4yourself Not a safe space
02/02/14 7:18 pm

Male doctors work a lot more hours on average. Anyone who works more hours in a profession should get paid more.

johninsandiego San Diego CA
02/02/14 4:49 pm

My place of employment grants both sick leave and annual leave. There is also a program where annual leave can be donated to other employees that gave used all there sick leave due to prolonged illness. Each month employees receive an email that

johninsandiego San Diego CA
02/02/14 4:46 pm

My place of employment grants both sick leave and annual leave. There is also a program where annual leave can be donated to other employees that gave used all there sick leave due to prolonged illness. Each month employees receive an email that

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/02/14 4:08 pm

Why would an employer discriminate?
Most employers just want the job done and couldn't care about gender. A lot of employers are so afraid of bogus discrimination claims that they discriminate in favor of their females. Male victims are defenseless.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 8:51 am

Got any actual statistical evidence for that claim?

I won't hold my breath.

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/03/14 7:14 pm

I have a lot of first hand experience including several bogus claims.

I also know for a fact that an employer would be extremely irresponsible to pass up the best employee to select one based on personal biases.

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 7:28 pm

The plural of anecdote is not "data"...

And the point is that people aren't AWARE of their biases. No one thinks people are affirmatively choosing not to hire women because they're women. The problem is that women are perceived differently before

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 7:29 pm

people even reach the point of recognizing objective qualifications. It's subconscious. People don't like to admit that they don't have full command of their subconscious so they pretend it isn't coloring their perceptions, thus perpetuating things.

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/03/14 8:28 pm

I prefer people I like & enjoy being around.
I'll hire the best person for the organization.
That is seldom a person that is antagonist or abrasive.
Given an attractive young lady and one less confrontational I'll take peace.

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/03/14 8:31 pm

I'm aware of my biases and they are consistent with the organization.

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 8:37 pm

So it's consistent with your organization to associate being "abrasive" with unattractiveness? And it's consistent to deem attractiveness a legitimate consideration in hiring women?

At least you admit you have sexist biases, I guess.

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/03/14 10:03 pm

Yes, I have biases.
I prefer likable people and I consider the whole person & how they fit in the organization. I'll take less job skills if the overall result is best for the organization.
I don't want to hire confrontational, dysfunctional folks

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
02/03/14 10:06 pm

Beth: Sorry but you aren't getting an offer from me.

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 10:37 pm

Lol Casper. I'd never intentionally apply for a job where I'd be working for a sexist old fart who uses terms like "young lady" to refer to women, and calls women "confrontational" and "dysfunctional" for having opinions they aren't afraid to voice.

BillieJoeCobain Earth turns from sanity
02/02/14 4:02 pm

The reason women generally make less is that they cannot do as much physical labor as men

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macabregenius In Purgatory
02/02/14 3:42 pm

I'd say the outcome of this poll is nearly spot on. It's mostly choices with a minority of women still facing discrimination.

Obamaican
02/02/14 3:33 pm

Most women that I've known make more then me, I've only known one millionaire in my entire life and he was a guy. I would imagine most women are concerned with making friends, boyfriends and babies then making money.

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macabregenius In Purgatory
02/02/14 3:45 pm

You know there's women on soap boxes on here right? Prepared to be labeled...

purplemonkey New York
02/02/14 3:30 pm

this question is a double-edged sword because women are traditionally blocked from the many higher-paying jobs, through no fault or effort of their own

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aj1545 Cat Lady
02/02/14 3:32 pm

The question oversimplified a lot.

cyanospool The Deep North
02/03/14 4:46 am

Blocked by whom?

madeit Houston Area
02/02/14 3:18 pm

Problem is, many jobs that women traditionally do more often, like counseling and educating, are not valued as much when it comes to the pocketbook. Other jobs are seen as more worthy of a six figure income, so those people get paid more.

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cyanospool The Deep North
02/03/14 4:49 am

Value of a career field isn't determined by some magical patriarchy decision machine in the sky that forces people to "view" counseling as less valuable than engineering. Value of a service or good isn't based in some bigotry. It's based in utility.

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/03/14 8:23 am

The wage gap shows up between men and women in the same fields. Not all studies average across the board (doing that produced the .77/1 number. The gap is still evident when comparing within similar positions with similar qualifications 5-10 cents

Ireland Michigan
02/02/14 3:02 pm

What I hate about this statistic is that it takes no other factors into account

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discer middle of life
02/02/14 2:53 pm

companies should hire the highest quality employees. And a lot of times that person is a woman. I think the wage differences will soon disappear.

CoffeeNow CCP virus
02/02/14 2:31 pm

You know why this conspiracy is bullsh-t? If it were true, profit-minded companies would ONLY hire women because they could get the same labor for a cheaper rate.

They don't.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 2:57 pm

Unless the employers subconsciously believe women are worse at their jobs (thus explaining why they would pay them less to start with).

CoffeeNow CCP virus
02/02/14 2:27 pm

Where I work women make more than men for the same work

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bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 2:30 pm

Where do you work, and how do you know that? That would be an interesting outlier, but just a single data point. Doesn't mean the stats are wrong.

CoffeeNow CCP virus
02/02/14 2:32 pm

I work for a bank, and I know what my peers make who started with me

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 2:35 pm

They hired the women you work with at higher starting salaries? Even though you all had the same experience?

CoffeeNow CCP virus
02/02/14 2:53 pm

Yes, as college grads. Similar majors too

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 2:55 pm

That's bizarre? Were you worried that asking to be paid the same might result in retaliation against you?

CoffeeNow CCP virus
02/02/14 3:52 pm

Well it couldn't help. But we're paid well enough where I don't really care to rock the boat

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 4:05 pm

I can understand that. I think that's how a lot of people wind up feeling when they're being treated unfairly :-/ that really sucks. Hope you find a fairer employer soon.

CoffeeNow CCP virus
02/02/14 4:34 pm

Not much in life is 100.00% fair so I keep it in perspective

house ohio
02/03/14 6:52 pm

straight white men have no recourse so they can be fired with no consequences to the company. I'm gonna act gay in order protect my dam self.

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/03/14 7:05 pm

That's ridiculous. Gender discrimination is illegal in either direction. It's just that it rarely happens to men.

tenletters New York
02/02/14 2:07 pm

I'm not going to deny that a lot of it does have to do with choice, but discrimination plays a strong hand in the making of the choice itself and outside of choice.

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platinum
02/02/14 1:59 pm

There is WAY more age discrimination than gender regarding equal pay.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 2:29 pm

Old people do make much more on average than younger people. Usually they call that "experience."

rebelfury76 F Trump, F his base
02/02/14 2:58 pm

Which is why old people don't get jobs when they're looking.

platinum
02/03/14 1:26 am

Old people don't get jobs because of their lack of experience.

No one wants to deal with someone that doesn't have basic computer skills.

lindyj23
02/03/14 5:31 am

"Old" people may have learned their computer skills on the job instead of at grade school but that doesn't make them less valuable. People with a mature attitude make better employees, regardless of age.

kcRVAco
02/02/14 1:53 pm

Insert every democrats government solution here....

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bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 1:52 pm

Both, and also keep in mind that choice can itself be a function of the effects of discrimination.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 1:55 pm

Also, the post is inflammatory and incorrect. Although the 77 cents number is known to overstate the disparity (and I agree people should stop using it for that reason), depending on source the unexplained pay gap is still 4-12 cents on the dollar.

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 1:56 pm

Also, Yale recently did a controlled study conclusively demonstrating the existence of unconscious gender bias: blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/2012/09/23/study-shows-gender-bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 1:36 pm

Both. Career choice is a major factor, but it is not the only factor.

I used to work in post-secondary education. I know for a certainty that when equally qualified men & women were offered the same position that the man was offered more money.

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BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 1:37 pm

Also, when a single person & a married person applied for the position, the married person was offered more money. I am not saying this is the case everywhere, but it was there.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 1:39 pm

Unlike the other places that I have worked & the placed where my parents worked, there was not a published or set (written) pay range for any position. When this happens, I think discrimination is more likely.

kjs Minnesota
02/02/14 1:31 pm

A woman that my husband knew at work was discriminated for the simple reason that she is a woman. She was teaching the men a job she perfected but she wasn't allowed to advance. The men did. She sued & won.

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Bzuefishx
02/02/14 1:27 pm

I'm convinced it's career choice, but even so, gender issues do exist: my daughter is pursuing a degree in electrical engineering and women are outnumbered at least 10:1 in her department.

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Bzuefishx
02/02/14 1:27 pm

Engineering is an exceptionally worthwhile long-term career path, so why the disparity?

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 1:31 pm

One thought ... unlike Fashion Design or Women's Studies, Engineering requires hard work.

Too many are adverse to hard work.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 2:41 pm

Maybe because our society believes & accepts that males are better at math & science than females & engineering requires a lot of math & science.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 2:42 pm

As a female who was strong in math & science, I can tell you that rather than being celebrated for overcoming the accepted norm, than I was treated more like a freak, especially by male math teachers.

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/02/14 3:00 pm

@bamagirl- you're dead on. I'm majoring in computer science and I've seen this first hand. I notice when someone has a question and asks everyone in the room but me. When I work in a group and they won't try my ideas (even when theirs aren't working)

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/02/14 3:02 pm

I notice the stares if I come in remotely dressed up. Maybe if we didn't make women feel they had to prove their themselves on behalf of their gender or make them feel shut out, more would be in tech. You can see it in the elementary kids at

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/02/14 3:03 pm

Programming camp already. The heart of the issue is here: guy messes up, he's stupid. Girl messes up: all women are stupid and see? Women aren't good at computer science.

Bzuefishx
02/02/14 7:41 pm

Thinking we (parents) were a good influence and we for sure had good role models: my mom majored in economics, my aunt has a masters in math, and my mother-in-law is a CPA. Hopefully dumb stereotype re: girls and math is fading.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 10:01 pm

Did you see the ad for girls engineering toys during the Super Bowl?

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 10:03 pm

Manru ... when leftists can't think of anything intelligent to say they often revert to name calling. Thanks for keeping the streak alive!

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 10:06 pm

Think, it was a tacky comment on your part. It also demonstrates an attitude that is part of the problem. I am not a leftist by any stretch, BTW.

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 10:07 pm

My daughter plans to study Mechanical Engineering.

A part of active parenting is challenging children to find what they love.

Leftists who abdicate parenting to the "village" are somehow surprised when their kids turn out rudderless and confused.

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 10:10 pm

Bama ... which part was tacky and which is a part of the problem?

Was it the truth hurting some overly sensitive self-defined victims?

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 10:15 pm

Think, you said, "One thought ... unlike Fashion Design or Women's Studies, Engineering requires hard work. Too many are adverse to hard work". How is that not tacky? You implied that most women are lazy.

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 10:20 pm

Bama ... you're the one who is now suggesting that "most women" choose Fashion Design or Women's Studies.

I only suggest that by comparison, those who choose lazy fields of study are selling themselves short!

Opps!!!

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 10:40 pm

Think, I only quoted you. I think nothing of the sort. BTW, it's spelled "oops".

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/02/14 10:43 pm

This was the first you mentioned anything about people selling themselves short. The question was asked why fewer women choose engineering & you responded with two majors which would have more females & said they didn't require hard work.

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 10:58 pm

Bama ... is your position so weak that we are now distracted by your preferred spelling choices? Last I checked, the Yellowhammer State was spelled "Alabama". But we digress.

While I'd admit that my comment was stark, maybe even harsh, it is true!

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 6:47 am

Think- saying sexist shit isn't a good way to "prove" sexism is over. Just a thought :)

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 11:29 am

If you knew much about my home state, then you would know that Bama has been one of its nicknames for a long time.

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 11:33 am

Bama ... you've successfully changed the subject from something relevant to something trivial.

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 11:36 am

AJ ... the sad thing is you couldn't see sexist if it hit you in the face! The facts maybe too harsh for you tender heart, if do, but it's time to grow up!

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 11:38 am

It's pretty easy to identify here. Lets start where you claimed women I'm general don't like to work hard.

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 11:41 am

AJ ... Tru again. I said SOME are lazy, certainly not all!

You may want to focus on reading comprehension ... unless you were intentionally attempting to play the victim card ...

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 11:45 am

Also, you are the one failing to make a substantial argument. I simply pointed out your spelling error, because of the lack of substance to your argument.

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 11:49 am

@think- you're trying to save yourself here. You were offering it as a reason fewer women are present in the tech field. Saying the gender disparity is due to some women being lazier is saying more women are lazy than men- otherwise it wouldn't be a

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 11:50 am

A reason to have a gender disparity. If that isn't what you meant, you should have read your comment more carefully. Reading comprehension buddy.

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:13 pm

Bama ... you chose to twist my statement, I corrected that. Do you stand by your assertion that most women chose the lazy path?

I reaffirm that some courageous women choose to study worthy subjects, like medicine and engineering. What about you?

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:15 pm

AJ ... as there are no barriers to entrance into engineering schools, in fact as women are actively recruited over men, how then do to explain the dismal showing of women in technical disciplines and the flood in "Women's Studies" and other nonsense?

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:18 pm

AJ ... it's okay if you can't admit when you're wrong. You see, your approval isn't what I seek.

I made a true statement. It unfortunate that it's true, but it remains so, even if you don't like it! I prefer to id the cause an attack it, not hide

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 12:22 pm

Think - I did not twist your statement & you didn't successfully refute anything.

Did you miss the part where I said that was good at math & science? Do you think I don't like or support myself?

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 12:25 pm

@think- so then you DO think women are lazier than men. Back to your original statement: saying women are lazier than men is sexist.

And as to why, it can't have anything to with what I mentioned in previous comments or with boys being steered

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 12:27 pm

Toward tech? It's laziness? Here is what you're saying "Sexism isn't real because of this sexist thing I think and have no evidence for". All right, makes sense.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 12:28 pm

A few things that you should know about me that are relevant to this discussion. When I was in 6th grade, I participated in Duke University's Talent Identification Program (TIP). As part of TIP in the 6th grade, I took the SAT right beside juniors &

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:28 pm

Bama ... it's now clear that you're looking for validation, so ... yeah Bama. Now, if you could focus past yourself and read the comment -- not as a victim, but as someone ready to fix a problem -- you might be able to admit that far too many ...

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:31 pm

... girls focus far too much time on meaningless wastes of time and miss the valuable educational opportunities that they have.

Their hair will fade, skin wrinkle. Why waste so much time on it!? More girls should focus more on core subjects!

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 12:33 pm

& seniors in high school. I scored above more than 50% of the juniors & seniors nationwide on the Math section.

Additionally, I am a member of Mensa, so I am certainly not the idiot you seem to think I am.

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:34 pm

AJ ... unlike you, I don't think of women as a single entity. My comment was that TOO MANY (one is too many) waste their time.

Your inability to comprehend rather straightforward logic is likely a good example of the point! Grow up!

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 12:35 pm

I have for Associate degrees, a BA in English, a Bachelors in Business Administration, & a MBA with an emphasis in Information Systems (which is an academic term for computer systems).

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:37 pm

Bama ... so you think your "credentials" afford you the right to twist others' words?

Your problem may be that your intellectual ignorance is getting in the way.

No matter, I wish the best for you, hoping first you grow out of your victimhood!

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 12:39 pm

Think, you make A LOT of assumptions about me, about AJ, & about women, I truly hope that you do not treat the women in your life, especially your daughter with such malice. The thing that makes this even sadder is that you are so jaded that you

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:40 pm

Bama ... 30 years as a Computer Scientist leads me to conclude that you chose the watered down version of the discipline.

But that's ok, you sound like you can hold your own ... now if you can just get past that huge chip on your shoulder ...

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 12:40 pm

can't even admit your bias. I am sad for you.

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:43 pm

Bama ... I'm far from perfect, but my daughters -- all there of them -- have turned out to be strong women who know their value. They are certainly nobody's victim and never attempt to excuse their mistakes or play the victim card. All the best!

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 12:45 pm

I am not a victim. I chose the path that I wanted. Your arrogance & condescension are the every reason that your first comment was not well received. Maybe you need to work on your people skills.

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:45 pm

Bama ... you've pegged me correctly. I don't suffer the whiners or excuse makers.

I expect the best from myself and challenge all around me to reach for the stars, not the Kleenex.

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 12:47 pm

... every day, princess ... iWork on my people skills every day. I recommend the same for you.

You might start by removing the Mensa milestone around your neck.

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 1:14 pm

Think- now you are just talking down to bama girl and trying to get a rise out of her. I seriously did a double take when I saw you had a daughter- you're arguing like a 14 year old. Come back with something other than an ad hominem attack and well

Think Lovin Life
02/03/14 1:19 pm

AJ ... I thought you were an intelligent person who could reason. It's clear that you're so mired in your victim hood that you've lost that ability.

I can't help you. I wish you the best! Cheers

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
02/03/14 1:42 pm

AJ, Marnu was correct & I know better than to "feed them". I thought Think was reasonable. I was obviously wrong. I'm not wasting anymore of my time with this arrogant jerk.

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/03/14 2:40 pm

Good call, I've decided the same haha

sydwel
02/02/14 1:13 pm

Career choice plays a big part, but that doesn't mean there is no discrimination or other societal issues preventing women from taking top positions at companies, etc.

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Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/02/14 1:10 pm

I work in the payroll business. It is against the law to pay based on gender and in thousands of clients I have yet to see it outside of modeling. 100% occupational and career choices.

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Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 1:28 pm

Thanks for sharing your insight!

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 2:28 pm

Payroll just means getting the proper amount of taxes withheld from paychecks and managing pay days so employees are paid on time. It isn't HR. You aren't in charge of hiring and you have no idea how the wages are agreed on before you process them.

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/02/14 2:33 pm

Allow me to expand... I work in 'employer services' and I have had thousands of clients. I consult hr, recruiting p, performance and compensation. I do know how much people get paid and how those decisions are made.

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 2:36 pm

Do you ever ask why women are paid less than men? How do your clients answer that question?

bethanyq Ess Eff
02/02/14 2:37 pm

Or are you suggesting that there is no pay gal whatsoever at any of your clients? That'd be quite a sweeping claim. You'd have to know a LOT of people's salaries to be able to make it.

nickvicious
02/02/14 12:43 pm

I've found that men seem more likely to get promoted whilen women are more likely to get stuck in administrative or HR.

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TravisTeach Texas
02/02/14 12:21 pm

I think mainly careers but then we must ask why do predominantly female career, such as teaching and nursing, pay less?

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Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 12:32 pm

And lets also ask why women shy away from professions that involve high risk, extreme work conditions and time away from home!

Face it, this is yet another Democrat led boondoggle to avoid facing their failure to govern. Don't women feel used?

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/02/14 12:34 pm

The comparison isn't elementary school teachers to loggers, its people in the same occupations.

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 12:36 pm

Comrade ... don't mislead! Show your sources!

When you are unable, we can conclude that it's just another Democrat lie.

bMyComrade Stumptown
02/02/14 12:39 pm

Says the man who hasn't posted sources in this thread either.... Think, you are a hypocrite, don't ask me to cite sources if you haven't done the same.
And I've posted several sources in this forum. From the BLS and the GAO.

Cocksure US Army Ranger
02/02/14 12:48 pm

So you're saying you're both full of shit and vinegar?

RoDe Latinus wordsus
02/02/14 12:54 pm

Think- you're a disgrace. With the income inequality between men and women being what is it, the idea that to suppose this is sexism/discrimination is a democratic plot to gain female support seems to miss the fact that there is sexism in hiring.

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 12:59 pm

RoDe ... I hope the kool-aid tastes good.

Think Lovin Life
02/02/14 1:19 pm

Comrade ... you weren't being dishonest when you failed to state how MrO twisted the facts, right? MrO's got a new set of Pinocchios!

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/01/28/fact-checking-the-2014-state-of-the-union-address/

RoDe Latinus wordsus
02/02/14 2:29 pm

Think- I'm still focused on the fact that you think the disparity in income between women and men is a democratic ploy at getting women voter. It is so absurd and insulting to women that it's not funny.

RoDe Latinus wordsus
02/02/14 2:31 pm

Why would democrats need a ploy to get women voters when the Republicans want to restrict abortion and force them to see ultrasounds of the fetus they plan to about. Republicans are pics and make all men look bad.

RoDe Latinus wordsus
02/02/14 2:32 pm

Pigs*. With the way you guys act towards women the idea that democrats need some fake ploy is so wrong.

aj1545 Cat Lady
02/02/14 3:06 pm

@Think- this is why even fairly conservative women tend to be wary of the Republican Party. Fun idea: want support? Stop denying sexism is a thing. It's one thing to have a different solution than Dems, but you're just in denial.