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MachoMatt84 November 14th, 2017 3:18am

It is the sole responsibility of the individual to take actions to protect themselves from common criminal behavior.

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Senate101 San Diego
11/13/17 9:43 pm

SOLE responsibility? Of course not.

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missmorganmarie ...
11/13/17 9:20 pm

if a man was raised right, he would ask her if she was alright getting home, not pouncing on her in a back alley

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NKarta Please excuse my sanity
11/13/17 9:22 pm

Obviously you are mainly responsible for your actions, but you are not alone in the world, other people affect your life.

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thaisoccerfan MAGA
11/14/17 10:43 am

Step one: buy a gun
Step two: get training to use the gun
Step three: carry the gun with you
Step four: it’s now likely you won’t be the victim of a crime since you can now defend yourself.

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/13/17 11:28 pm

Typical defense of rapists framed as a “personal responsibility” argument.

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DJ13
11/14/17 12:48 am

So, if I'm sitting at a dunkin donuts with an on duty cop and some crazy lunatic comes in shooting, the cop has "no" responsibility to protect me or any other individual in the place?

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missmorganmarie ...
11/13/17 9:19 pm

it isnt about self respect. she could be wearing booty shorts and nipple tassles for all intents and purposes. that doesnt mean she is asking for or deserving to get raped

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Kyle5 TN
11/16/17 11:48 pm

You more or less agreed with me Face. I said I'd recommend means of self defense over state of dress to minimize risk, and you said yourself that vulnerability is a big factor, besides obvious ones like being asleep or impaired.

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ladyniner81 no hope for humanity
11/15/17 11:26 pm

Why does a woman need to take precautions or dress like a fucking nun because some horny drunk couldn't keep his dick in his pants and needed a power move?

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anniepoops fear the deer
11/13/17 9:52 pm

You take responsibility in attempting to protect yourself, definitely. These protections aren’t foolproof, but you can try to do your best.

I think you and I were discussing two different things in our comments.

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NKarta Please excuse my sanity
11/13/17 8:46 pm

Not really. Police have to try to stop criminals. Criminals are responsible for their own actions.

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anniepoops fear the deer
11/13/17 9:02 pm

I feel like people shouldn’t commit crimes. I’m not in control of other people’s behavior.

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Kyle5 TN
11/16/17 11:19 am

It's never ok, and I'm not defending rapists. Im simply saying that it's best to take precautions to lessen the risk. Does anyone house deserved to get robbed? No, but if they leave the door unlocked and/or the windows wide open it will be more likely to. I'd actually recommend carrying some sort of weapon like pepper spray or a taser over state of dress, but both will decrease the odds of sexual assault. It's not a matter of is it ok, it's a matter of minimizing risk.

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MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/13/17 8:26 pm

A woman dresses up like a cheap hooker to go to the corner store one evening in an area known to have crime. I am aware that no one deserves to be raped or robbed, but holy crap! You've got to respect yourself enough to take some precautions!

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TrueLiberalism Constitutionalist
11/13/17 8:30 pm

Yes but it's not the sole responsibility..... An individual has many responsibilities.

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anniepoops fear the deer
11/13/17 9:33 pm

We can take preventative measures to deter crime, but the onus isn’t entirely on me (or any individual). It shouldn’t be my sole responsibility to not have crime committed against me. People need to be held accountable for their actions. The idea of sole responsibility for the individual (potential victim) seems to minimize the actions of the criminal.

I pay taxes that fund a government that can make various decisions to combat crime. These can help deter crime in my area. It is partly their responsibility to combat crime. Police presence can deter folks. Security from community anchors also helps deter crime. Neighborhood groups can work to fight crime. Fighting crime isn’t just for individuals- in my experience, it’s part of a bigger community.

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 11:50 pm

I do not think YOU realize what you are saying, or maybe you do, as much as you dance around it.

“She's making herself such an easy target that I'm not going to feel too sorry for her.“

“I would say if you dress like a whore then expect to be treated like one.”

Reasonable conclusion: on some level you believe she deserves it.

The sad thing is that you don’t acknowledge the part the man plays in this scenario and you are so focused on your dress code that you completely disregard the most salient (and verifiable) points of the argument: It is not the clothes that cause or result in assault or rape - but the BEHAVIOR of the woman (or man) that makes them a victim. It is making themselves vulnerable - NOT CLOTHING but by drinking too much or being alone or careless in who they drink with.

...

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 11:51 pm

Harrassment is the result of MEN being ASSHOLES, making judgments like “skank” or “whore” or “easy” based on apparel. It is tacit acceptance, if not approval, when your response is to control the woman.

(Kyle, all of the above was addressed to Matt - sorry if it is confusing)

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 2:49 pm

Kyle, victims are not chosen based on clothing. They are chosen based on vulnerability: are they alone, are they isolated - or can they be-, are they intoxicated or otherwise unable to defend them selves, like asleep.

Look it up.

The best advice is don't get drunk or impaired, stay with friends, be aware; not "dress modestly".
.

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 6:35 pm

And evidently because MachoMatt himself believes that women who dress “like skanks” should be treated “like whores”, we should accept it as universal truth and dress accordingly.

Here ya go, Matt 🥄 and a spare 🥄 .

What I said was correct, Kyle. Do take the time to research it.
.

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Shazam Scaramouche, OH
11/14/17 4:09 am

"My question states that it is the sole responsibility of the individual to take actions to protect themselves from crime"
FALSE. This is exactly the mentality that has led to "she shouldn't have worn that" and well, she shouldn't have been drinking" and what did she expect going there alone" arguments. Blaming the victim for the decision of another is and always will be incorrect.

⚡️

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LeftLibertarian The Age of Outrage
11/13/17 8:57 pm

No, and ESPECIALLY not with rape. Unlike other crimes, rape has no possible reasonable explanation. Theft for example, can at least arise from a person’s desperate economic situation or to fuel a drug addiction. With rape, the perpetrator could easily go about their day not committing the crime with no negative repercussions to themselves. It is truly a crime beyond reason.

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abusara i drink and i know things
11/14/17 6:43 am

No. That's not the law, nor the "social contract" within western civilization.

That's not to say the individual is free from any responsibility in this matter, rather to say it's not the individuals "sole" responsibility.

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Kyle5 TN
11/13/17 10:30 pm

It's similar to going to a bad part of town with your wallet in an easy place to steal is what I would compare it to?

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MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/13/17 9:10 pm

I don't think people should commit crimes either, but because I know they do, I lock my doors, have guns, and have a security system. I have taken reasonable steps to prevent crime against me.

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MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/13/17 9:13 pm

Rape can arise from a guys desperate need to get pussy or desire to exude total control over someone else. I don't think there's any excuse for robbery, rape, burglary, murder, or other major crime. But its not about what I think. It's about those individuals that don't care and choose to do it anyways.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/17/17 10:32 am

You seem to think that clothes make no difference at all in the way others see people. And perhaps I haven't made it clear that clothing attire isn't the only factor. But it is a factor you don't acknowledge at all. You also don't acknowledge that I have repeatedly said that I do not condone sexual assault or rape that *some* men commit and wish swift and harsh punishment upon them. You seem to accuse all men in a sweeping statement. I don't have a problem with that. I'm sure your husband doesn't either, and nor do most men. But you do know that some men are capable of bad things. Why don't you want to help women protect themselves and be more self sufficient against those men? Why don't you want to promote self respect amongst women? I don't have a dress code. Dress how you want, you're choice. But be mindful that some of your own choices are bad choices.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/13/17 9:15 pm

I meant that specific responsibility belongs to them alone, not that it's their only responsibility.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/13/17 9:19 pm

Yes, criminals are responsible for their own actions. But it is your responsibility to take actions to prevent them from taking advantage of you. The police can only deter so much on a broad level. They don't protect you individually. They go after bad guys *after* the crime is committed.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/17/17 10:42 am

I'm not trying to control the woman. That's absurd and nothing I've said even implies that. I will control what my daughter wears though. I know that *some* men are dirtbags. Because of that, I won't let her leave the house in a mini skirt and a crop top. Why? Cause some dudes will likely see her as a skank or whore and take advantage of that. I can't control those guys and my daughter can't either, though she could change her influence on them. If clothing really didn't matter, why do schools have dress codes? Why do good parents make sure their kids are dressed appropriately while in school? The only two things I'm a little hung up on is the sweeping accusation of "men" without qualifiers (also without any suggestion of protection against said men), and the utter nonsense that clothing or attire makes no difference in anything when I've already given numerous examples to clearly prove otherwise.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/13/17 9:36 pm

She's making herself such an easy target that I'm not going to feel too sorry for her. I wouldn't want her to get raped and I agree she doesn't deserve to get raped. But she is being incredibly stupid and irresponsible! Dressed like that she should know that she is putting herself at great risk and take responsibility for the fact that, in this example, she has made poor decisions. Personal responsibility goes both ways, if you ask me.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/13/17 9:38 pm

My question states that it is the sole responsibility of the individual to take actions to protect themselves from crime. In other words to prevent it by becoming a harder target.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/13/17 9:40 pm

Right, it's my responsibility to protect myself from the actions of others that I can't stop. I can't stop a criminal from breaking into houses, but I can prevent them from breaking into my house.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/16/17 10:50 pm

Woah, woah. Don't twist my words. I never said or advocated that someone who dresses like a whore, skank, etc *should* be treated like such. I said explicitly that she should *expect* to be treated as such. I have never and will never advocate or condone treating someone like trash with exception of perhaps the worst and most vile people alive, including rapists. Luke I've said, I don't think you're hearing what I'm actually saying.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/16/17 5:39 pm

Don't worry about it Kyle. They believe that, because ideally no one should have to protect themselves or mitigate risks against bad people, that they then shouldn't worry about it because they're just a victim, end of story. Np other considerations allowed. An ounce of prevention is dumb and uncomfortable.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
11/16/17 5:44 pm

That's a great plan, but not politically correct. Being a victim is more politically correct and gets you more coddling.

thaisoccerfan MAGA
11/16/17 5:46 pm

If not being politically correct keeps me safe then sign me up